Mid Air Collision near KFRG

[moto400ex]

Wow... bad day for those controllers.  First a midair then a nordo aircraft, within 10 minutes of each other. 

The nordo was the other half of the midair. After the Cessna lands there is a weak call on the radio from him. I would assume his com antenna was broken off in the midair.

The Piper was worried about his gear, the Cessna was leaking fuel. Sounds like the typical high wing below a low wing midair.

Two lucky pilots.

Frank Holbert
www.160knots.com

I was talking about he aircraft not involved in the accident.  I know the cessna involved in the accident could not be heard so yes I guess he technically had no radio.  A little later there was another cessna which could not recieve. 

[KSYR-pjr]

Kinda a garbled Saratoga?? There was a Seneca flying too - Seneca 15340, I had to listen a couple times. Similar sounding voice too.

Sorry, I was thrown off by your mention of a "Seneca" in your first post.  After going back a couple of times I can hear it now.

I took  "43450 oscar" to be an abbreviated "43450 With Information Oscar", and I think the controller did too, since he replied with "43450" Finally, both aircraft may be based at KFRG, so the controller would recognize them.

Yep, makes sense.   Good ears. 

[eedetail]

Sorry, I was thrown off by your mention of a "Seneca" in your first post.  After going back a couple of times I can hear it now.

Goes to show you cant proofread your own posts. I've corrected my transcription, thanks for the correction, G'day!

[SkanknTodd]

Hollis, it is my understanding from the clip that the aircraft could not hear the local controller even after several attempts. The plane asked for the use of light gun signals, and in fact mentions receiving a signal to enter the pattern for landing.

You got it right.  That was me with no radio.  About half way through the flight I realized I couldn't hear anything except static and other weird sounds.  After trying to sort things out, I decided to come back to FRG.  I thought the tower might still be able to hear me, so I transmitted my intentions while squawking 7600.  Since the tower responded immediately with light gun signals, I figured they could hear me and I acknowledged their signals by transmitting (instead of rocking my wings).

Since I couldn't hear the tower, I had not heard about the mid-air.  Luckily, while playing with the radio, I was able to pick up enough from the ATIS to know that they had switched the runway from 19 to 14 (since both accident aircraft were on 19).  It was dark, so I couldn't see the disabled aircraft on 19 and I didn't learn about the mid-air until after I shut down.

[bcradio]

********************************************************************************
**   Report created 10/23/2007   Record 8                                     **
********************************************************************************

IDENTIFICATION
  Regis#: 4672M        Make/Model: C152      Description: 152, A152, Aerobat
  Date: 10/21/2007     Time: 2204

  Event Type: Accident   Highest Injury: None     Mid Air: Y    Missing: N
  Damage: Substantial

LOCATION
  City: FARMINGDALE   State: NY   Country: US

DESCRIPTION
  N4672M, A CESSNA C152 AIRCRAFT, AND N43450, A PIPER PA32 AIRCRAFT, WHILE ON
  DOWNWIND COLLIDED MIDAIR AT 1100 FEET, BOTH AIRCRAFT LANDED WITHOUT FURTHER
  INCIDENT, NO INJURIES REPORTED, THE CESSNA RECEIVED SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE AND
  THE PIPER RECEIVED MINOR DAMAGE, FARMINDALE, NY

INJURY DATA      Total Fatal:   0
                 # Crew:   1     Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:   
                 # Pass:   0     Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:   
                 # Grnd:         Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:   

WEATHER: NOT REPORTED

OTHER DATA
  Activity: Unknown      Phase: Unknown      Operation: OTHER


  FAA FSDO: FARMINGDALE, NY  (EA11)               Entry date: 10/22/2007

[vkc]

Anybody catch the part with the student on his first solo, that'll be a night he never forgets. Glad everyone was ok, ATC handled it well.  The cessna proabbably didnt respond because of the extreme noise in the cockpit from a busted windshield he probabbaly never even heard the controller.

I am the student pilot on my first (aborted) solo in that recording, it's a thrill to watch both planes landing (I was waiting at the hold short line), I'm glad they made it back safely. By the way, I got my solo in a later and uneventful day. 

[KSYR-pjr]

I am the student pilot on my first (aborted) solo in that recording, it's a thrill to watch both planes landing (I was waiting at the hold short line), I'm glad they made it back safely. By the way, I got my solo in a later and uneventful day. 

Hey, welcome!

I was impressed at how patient you were with the controller.   You had called ground and requested to taxi back to the ramp and the controller, apparently distracted by the emergency vehicles, replied that he thought you should just return to the ramp rather than attempt to fly at that point.  Instead of getting into an on-air "I just requested that if you were listening" type of response, you simply agreed and requested it again.  Nice, cool communications for your first solo.  Good job.

[vkc]

I am the student pilot on my first (aborted) solo in that recording, it's a thrill to watch both planes landing (I was waiting at the hold short line), I'm glad they made it back safely. By the way, I got my solo in a later and uneventful day. 

Hey, welcome!

I was impressed at how patient you were with the controller.   You had called ground and requested to taxi back to the ramp and the controller, apparently distracted by the emergency vehicles, replied that he thought you should just return to the ramp rather than attempt to fly at that point.  Instead of getting into an on-air "I just requested that if you were listening" type of response, you simply agreed and requested it again.  Nice, cool communications for your first solo.  Good job.

Thanks for the compliment, just think the controller has enough to worry about and no point in giving them more trouble...

It was indeed a long wait over there, I got stuck in the taxiway with my engine running for 1 hour without even taking off, $$$$$...