LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Aviation Audio Clips => Topic started by: tremendous on July 24, 2006, 05:43:09 AM
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anybody catch the JFK tower, about 15 minutes ago, getting seriously pi**ed off with (i think) Avianca 020?
Appears he couldn't get to his stand and the tower completely lost it. when the pilot said that was 'all for now' the tower didn't think it was funny....
looking forward to the archive of that popping up...
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I think this is what you're talking about. Got angry with a couple of aircraft right after one another.
I edited it down a bit, to remove dead air, but it's still fairly long (~4min.) The controller really starts to get angry around the 2:50 mark, but all the stuff in front of that gives a bit of a perspective so I left it in. . .
Hope this is what you're looking for!
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AUGHHHHH! :-o
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Thats quite intense! :mrgreen:
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Poor colombian guy...U know where is from the other pilot? I didn´t get te callsign....
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"youre killing me" :evil: :lol: i dont listen to JFK much but tha guy kinda seemed like an ***hole (JFK Ground). I know he has more inportant thing s to do but, do you gotta me so mean. :? anyways i loved it I thought it was FUNNY!
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yep, that's the one. i wasn't paying a lot of attention yesterday and didn't realise he was arguing with two guys. pretty funny.
thanks for finding it and editing it!
d.
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May be wrong but it sounded like Finn Cargo
ATC sounds like a cardiac arrest waiting to happen, bet he has high blood pressure!
Jackie
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Good clip. This controller has a starring role in other clips in this forum. He is fast becoming the "anti-John" of JFK.
(John is a very talented and funny Boston controller who has a few humorous clips here.)
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Good clip. This controller has a starring role in other clips in this forum. He is fast becoming the "anti-John" of JFK.
(John is a very talented and funny Boston controller who has a few humorous clips here.)
Actually thats a different guy than (what sounds like a guy named) Dan. Which is the guy we always hear come up.
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Actually thats a different guy than (what sounds like a guy named) Dan. Which is the guy we always hear come up.
Really? He sounded to me just like the controller who yelled, "Just stop right there," from a previous JFK ground clip.
Now I admit to being from NY, but not to having those Brooklyn accents down cold. :)
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May be wrong but it sounded like Finn Cargo . . .
Jackie
Callsign is Sing-Cargo, short for Singapore Airlines Cargo (SQC).
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Would you experts let me know which archived feed would be most likely to have captured the AAL134 failed engine emergency. I did track its landing time at JFK to 0512Eastern time, but so far, I haven't found any audio.
Thanks!
Buffy
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Wow... it sure sounds like he's had a long night. I love the part where the controller says "You've switched frequencies but you've been talking to the same guy all night..." :mrgreen:
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Pilot did nothing wrong. That controller should be the one that lost his temper.
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Pilot did nothing wrong. That controller should be the one that lost his temper.
Not sure of your point here. The controller was the one who lost his temper.
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Actually its not tower but Ground who lost his temper. I hope he has been criticised for that.
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Actually its not tower but Ground who lost his temper. I hope he has been criticised for that.
It was late a night, all positions were combined... Same guy working everything. Hence why he said "You changed frequencies, but you've been talking to the same guy all night"
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It was late a night, all positions were combined... Same guy working everything. Hence why he said "You changed frequencies, but you've been talking to the same guy all night"
"all positions were combined"
Sure ,in the night..
But why not to combine all the frequency into one only?
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It was late a night, all positions were combined... Same guy working everything. Hence why he said "You changed frequencies, but you've been talking to the same guy all night"
"all positions were combined"
Sure ,in the night..
But why not to combine all the frequency into one only?
Because they're printed on the charts. Tower xxx.xx, Ground yyy.yy, and so forth
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Thats not bad for a laugh, poor pilot on the recieving end
As a side note, during the night, many airpots combine thier frequencies, e.g. MSY/IAD etc but they put a NOTAM in the ATIS such as "USE XXX.XX FOR DEL/GND/TWR"
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Hmmm, don't know how many pilots and/or ctrls are in this thread, but as a pilot I feel compelled to stick up for the ctrlr. He was operating in combined position with a Singapore Cargo pilot who couldn't seem to confirm a simple taxi and route clnc. Add the accent/lang issue, plus a tired ctrlr, and the result is a demonstration that we are all human. The NYC corridor is the most demanding for all in the system, bar none, esp controllers. It demands that all involved fit into the flow, which is what the pilot was not doing... Their was no major beef with Avianca 20, just a rollout clnc clarification after the altercation with SingCargo. I'm afraid the peppering of repetitive questions was like Chinese water torture to the ctrlr (pun intended)... And I should also point out that this is mild in the overall scheme of things, for NY. So, I wouldn't crucify the ctrlr here... I think it's better to exchange a few frank words than get a clnc wrong and have a bad outcome... All pilots who've been thru NY know it's tough... Just my two cents...
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I know at MSY twr/gnd/del and app/dep from/into MSY are combined on the tower frequency 119.5 after about 2000. Traffic here is almost half what it was before the storm (As of 7/13: 107 from 166 daily departures-64% before storm). It works pretty well. I haven't had a chance to listen to ATIS late at night, but tonight I will and see what they say.
How would one guy control, say 3 freqs? How would you get three transmit buttons to one person? I don't see how that's possible.
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One doesn't have three - five push to talk buttons. It's all routed via landlines/telephone lines to the transmitters. In order to transmit on other frequencies. All that is done is that several buttons on these touchscreen monitors are engaged so that it makes the all the transmitters that you want in full duplex start operating from the same unit in which your plugged into.
Enhanced Terminal Voice Switch (ETVS) - Associated with STARS builds
(http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/6792/etvs1rh8.jpg)
Rapid Deployment Voice Switch (RDVS) - Associated with ACD (ARTS Color Display) builds
(http://cmh.natca.net/pictures/RDVS.jpg)
Down below on the desk in front of her you can see the Voice Switching and Control System (VSCS) - Associated with DSR builds - ARTCC's. You can actually see she is transmitting and recieving on three frequencies (They are illuminated green on the screen)
(http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/2124/centercontroller1zm8.jpg)
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Thanks Ed for the nice summary of the voice switching system in use at most FAA facilities. Nice job, and by the way, all of those systems are used to access not only Air-to-Ground (A/G) channels, but Ground to Ground (G/G) land-lines as well. And don't forget many older towers (especially non-federal ones) use a more dated ICSS, or Integrated Communication selection system.
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Funny, but sad at the same time.
Wow... it sure sounds like he's had a long night. I love the part where the controller says "You've switched frequencies but you've been talking to the same guy all night..." :mrgreen:
Yeah that's really good.
May be wrong but it sounded like Finn Cargo
Jackie
That makes me feel much better, because sometimes I have some trouble understanding the call signs, because English isn't my first language, but now I see that is even common with natives.
Pilot did nothing wrong. That controller should be the one that lost his temper.
Yeah, lol, there's some vibes in the air, that when the tower and pilots aren't of the same country, sometimes this kind of stuff happens.
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It was late a night, all positions were combined... Same guy working everything. Hence why he said "You changed frequencies, but you've been talking to the same guy all night"
"all positions were combined"
Sure ,in the night..
But why not to combine all the frequency into one only?
Because they're printed on the charts. Tower xxx.xx, Ground yyy.yy, and so forth
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That's the very truth,
But what I mean is doing in the night ,just in order to avoid confusion
However,we combined it in the night when positions combined...
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Down below on the desk in front of her you can see the Voice Switching and Control System (VSCS) - Associated with DSR builds - ARTCC's. You can actually see she is transmitting and recieving on three frequencies (They are illuminated green on the screen)
In our country ,it is prohibitted that transmitting and recieving on three frequencies via the voice switching system when the position was separated
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I train controllers from all over the world in ATC-pilot communications. This a a textbook example of what NOT to do. The supervisor should have immediately removed him from his position.
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Yay, first post here.
So, after listening to this, I didn't find anything *really* bad about this controller's behaviour.
He didn't call anyone names, he didn't shout, it was just a short sigh of frustration in my book, not even worthy to be called "getting mad" really.
Sure, not extremely professional and he certainly should try to avoid it, but I also don't think it warrants a removal from the position by the supervisor - a heads-up "that was wrong" would certainly be justified though.
Neither do I see that Sing Cargo pilot at error very much, he seemed pretty dense at that time, but it is certainly better to ask for clarification then to act on belief. "I have no clue what I am meant to do, but I believe I can get it right".
Regards,
Robert
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That was hillarious. That pilot was a bit of a stump but the controller needs to tone it down just a tad.
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The pilot needed to get a pen and write down his instructions. Asking him to repeat the MERIT portion wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't asked for his taxi route twice, and been told to cross the rwy twice.
Controllers usually do a pretty good job of issuing the instructions clearly enough such that they're not ambiguous and don't bear repeating. A pilot who reads it back correctly, then later asks for a repeat is either being overly cautious, or has forgotten the original clearance.
Asking for MERIT again once he reaced the rwy was very strange, since they had talked about it before. The name of the SID is the MERIT3, so it's kinda of hard to miss it.
That said, the controller wasted all that air time chewing him out when he could've just said said, "Mike Echo Romeo India Tango, MERIT". Restating MERIT HFD PUT was useless as the pilot has already read all of that back.
When I start getting annoyed at pilots on VATSIM as a controller, I'll drop in a "listen carefully..." or "as I said before..." but taking that much time to chew someone out if you're busy/tired is a waste of your own energy. I've tried the long chew-outs in the past, and have never felt good about it afterwards.
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When I start getting annoyed at pilots on VATSIM as a controller, I'll drop in a "listen carefully..." or "as I said before..." but taking that much time to chew someone out if you're busy/tired is a waste of your own energy. I've tried the long chew-outs in the past, and have never felt good about it afterwards.
Chewing someone out on the frequency is counter-productive. It may make a controller feel better at the time but it can only exacerbate a conjested frequency and kill any rapport the controller has with pilots on at the time.
As for the VATSIM example...my problem with VATSIM is there are so many people who participate at different levels. Many of the pilots flying around the network have very little knowledge of IFR procedures or even the basic flying. In the real world controllers expect a certain level of knowledge and awareness on the part of all pilots, especially those flying IFR or in busy terminal areas.
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Chewing someone out on the frequency is counter-productive. It may make a controller feel better at the time but it can only exacerbate a conjested frequency and kill any rapport the controller has with pilots on at the time.
Agreed. The only exception is when the pilot is SO far off base that even other pilots start turning on them.
As for the VATSIM example...my problem with VATSIM is there are so many people who participate at different levels. Many of the pilots flying around the network have very little knowledge of IFR procedures or even the basic flying. In the real world controllers expect a certain level of knowledge and awareness on the part of all pilots, especially those flying IFR or in busy terminal areas.
Yes, it's an ongoing problem, but the network is generally worthwhile, and there are enough solid pilots to sustain a good experience.
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Those guys work on the edge :)
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"Do you have any further questions about your route, your taxi route, the route you're going to fly, anything else."
"Not for now, sir."
"So now I'm sure in 30 seconds you'll have another one, but continue to the runway."
Fun.