Author Topic: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK  (Read 34867 times)

Offline mk223

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Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« on: January 18, 2015, 02:03:20 PM »
Caribbean Airlines 526 crossed the runway that Jetblue 1295 was rolling down for takeoff.

http://7online.com/travel/jetblue-flight-stops-short-during-takeoff-at-kennedy-airport/479757/
*Note the news story said shortly after 9pm which was the scheduled depature, but the real time of the incident was 10:30pm.



Offline michaelawai

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2015, 03:12:09 PM »
that atc sounded lil too cool for such an incident.. could be an "oops" on the part of atc

Offline mk223

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 03:51:43 PM »
I think it would take a lot to shock a JFK controller. This isn't to take away from the situation, but with the volume they must handle, any emotional rise could lead to a lot of other complications.

Offline randy20g

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 05:06:24 PM »
On the ground side after the incursion, listen to the exchange between Carib and GC. He asks if they were issued a rwy crossing. The female pilot says Affirmative.  The GC then issues a taxi clearance to the ramp. The female pilot reads back and giggles at the end.

At NO time was a rwy crossing issued, nor any taxi clearance for that matter BEFORE they crossed.

Offline rationaljeff

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 06:54:23 PM »
Have a link to the audio of the ground communication?

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 08:05:07 PM »
I'll see if I can find any subsequent JBU company comms to their ramp when I get a chance.

Offline keith

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 09:46:28 AM »
Here's the ground interaction. Listen for the giggle, it's there...

Offline randy20g

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 11:10:52 AM »
Thanks for adding the link Keith!


Offline frcabot

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 03:59:49 PM »
Caribbean airlines is terrible. I almost flew them once, the flight was cancelled for days due to mechanical issues and we were stranded at a hotel in the boonies in Long Island for days. CA refused to issue a refund and I had to get DOT involved. I think I dodged a bullet by not flying them. They have a pretty horrendous safety record, frankly I'm surprised they're allowed to fly to the US at all.

Offline frcabot

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 04:11:03 PM »
According to avherald.com, redwood 56 had received a clearance to cross 22R at J, where the runway incursion occurred. It's possible that 526 heard fifty six as five two six, especially if it was said quickly. Can anyone locate that clearance for redwood 56?

Offline keith

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 04:26:46 PM »
frcabot, ATC can use group form on air carrier callsigns, so it would be redwood fifty six versus caribbean five twenty-six (which is even more similar).

The key would be to see if they (Caribbean) read it back. If they did, then there's the answer. If they didn't read anything back, then evidence suggests they did not hear a call that they thought was for them.

Offline mk223

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2015, 09:31:13 PM »
According to avherald.com, redwood 56 had received a clearance to cross 22R at J, where the runway incursion occurred. It's possible that 526 heard fifty six as five two six, especially if it was said quickly. Can anyone locate that clearance for redwood 56?

Attached is the clearance for Virgin, no mention of CA near this audio and it is a pretty clear "FIVE-SIX"

Offline keith

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2015, 12:02:44 AM »
FIFTY-SIX :)

Offline davisdog

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2015, 12:41:30 AM »
unlikely..but it sounded like somebody else was speaking as the same time as Redwood 56's readback (the background hum sounds like somebody is blocked).  Hopefully that wasn't CA responding also (although ATC was clearly saying Redwood 56)

Offline keith

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2015, 03:58:43 PM »
swa4678, good call. For reference, it would be good to find another call from redwood 56 on the same frequency (hence same scanner receiving it), maybe the readback of their landing clearance?

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2015, 04:46:30 PM »
I'm putting together a master from a different source, but need to know the exact Z time and date of the event. An early post on the other thread said the incident occurred at 22:30 local on the 18th, which would have been 0330 Z on the 19th, however what I find there is a female controller simulcasting on both tower frequencies with aircraft split between them.

Offline keith

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2015, 07:53:19 PM »
Took me a long time to find it, too. It was actually Jan 17, here's the flight track with arrival time: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BWA526/history/20150117/2150Z/SYCJ/KJFK

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2015, 08:49:09 PM »
Well, that certainly will make a difference... because on the 18th JBU took off uneventfully at around 10:45 PM.

Will dig up the appropriate recordings and mix.

Offline joeyb747

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Offline bigj93702

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2015, 10:30:00 PM »
But was this a "high speed" abort as in after reaching V1 speed?   I presume that the JetBlue would say "unable -  committed to flight" or something like that. Just curious...

Offline keith

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2015, 10:46:53 PM »
my limited understanding of airline ops is that there are criteria for stopping at 0-100kts (it's a long list). Between 100kts and V1, it's a shorter list. After V1, hands are off the throttles and you're going. In fact, you're rotating very shortly after V1 anyway.

A 'high speed abort' is presumably the window from 100kts to V1. Aircraft on the runway seems like it would be a great reason to abort the takeoff.

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2015, 11:22:14 AM »
Well, attached is the best I can do, starts out after the tug releases 1295 and he goes to GND. Irrelevant transmissions removed, as well as dead air (about 20 min worth) leading up to where 1295 gets his takeoff clearance, thereafter everything in real time, tower on the left channel with ground and JBU company on the right. The receiver location is eight miles distant and coverage excellent, but 1295 must have stopped in a dead spot for the JBU company channel, or perhaps was using a hand-held in the cockpit, because he barely broke the squelch on that frequency, which is unusual as normally every milliwatt of RF is easily vacuumed out of there.

A few comments.

1) As you can see, 1295 had already been an extra load on the TC because he had a number of issues going on starting up his "cold airplane", thus drawing focus by the TC (paying more attention to this guy's plight than the others on the conveyor belt).

2) I could not find any rollout instructions from the TC to Car 526... the last you hear is the TC giving 526 the landing clearance, which 526 reads back as 525.

3) When you listen to the infamous blocked rollout instructions in this recording you can clearly hear the accent of the 526 pilot within it, and what could be interpreted as a "nine" at the end of the transmission but that I believe is probably a "five" since there is no "er" (which is why we say "niner"). Thus I believe the 526 pilot, expecting a rollout instruction, heard the instruction with a "six" as his and acknowledged making the same 525 vs 526 error he did with his landing clearance. I listen to these Car guys every day on HF, and 550, 525 and 526 are regular flights and all the pilots sound like Bob Marley.

4) The calls from the TC to 526 to "stop" as 1295 was on his takeoff roll were not heard because 526 had already switched to GND, which you will hear in the recording.

Conclusion: The TC dropped the ball handling the arrival of 526, probably because he was so excited about 1295 finally getting out of his hair.

Even in the process of editing this post (over and over again) I got 525, 526 and even a 529 all crossed up... multiple times :-)

I think I have it right now...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 11:41:58 AM by InterpreDemon »

Offline Rick108

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2015, 01:29:54 PM »
I think she (Caribbean 526) heard the "FIF TEE SIX"  as  "FIFE TWO SIX" (the 'accent', you know!) and either missed or ignored the Redwood vs. Caribbean prefix.  She heard "526" and read back the taxi route (blocked) and was not corrected, so in her mind, she was ok.  That's all I can figure...

Offline keith

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2015, 01:32:53 PM »
If there's a block, ATC usually hears it, too and usually says something like, "that was for <callsign> only," then repeats the instruction.

Offline InterpreDemon

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Re: Jetblue 1295 High Speed Aborted Takeoff at JFK
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2015, 02:06:20 PM »
That's why these things get a postmortem from the experts, and as we all know when bad things happen it is usually due to multiple small errors or unfortunate coincidences. For example we do not know how the GC's receiver on the field heard the double read back to his redwood instruction... If redwood stepped clean on 526 (and he assumed any heterodyne was a handoff from APP who would try again) he still would have been deemed to have failed to properly communicate to 526 any taxi and handoff instructions. On the other hand if 526 stepped on redwood or both were unintelligible he failed to confirm the read back. The only failure I see on the part of 526 was taking the redwood instructions as those they were expecting (and had yet to receive) anyway. I have removed the exchange immediately prior to that instruction, the two were in rapid fire succession, and it's easy to imagine the pilots housekeeping on rollout hearing the "26" or even just a "6" and mistaking it for the expected, routine instruction.

As to the power of minor distractions I need not remind you of Eastern 401 that flew into the ground due to a burned out gear light and AdamAir 574 that fell into a graveyard spiral from cruise due to preoccupation with an inertial platform anomaly.

There's enough blame to go around in these types of things and the best we can do is try to learn from them.