KDCA 1/29/25 8:50pm - JIA5342/PAT25 crash - Topics Merged

[alphazulu]

KDCA Washington, DC 01-29-2025 ~0900pm ET audio

American Airlines PSA "Blue Streak" flight 5342
Bombardier CRJ700
Wichita, Ks. KICT - Washington, DC KDCA
On the Mount Vernon visual approach runway 1, then accepted ATC change to runway 33
Reported with 60 passengers and 4 crew members on board 

US Army Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk                                                                                                                                                                                                                           
Had departed from Fort Belvoir, Va. about 10 miles southwest of KDCA
Reported 3 crew members

[uplink]

at the 17:30 mark:  Tower working multiple helos at that time. What sounds like,... "Do you have the RJ in sight?" "aircraft in sight, request visual separation", "approved". 

Very Sad for the families, RIP.

https://archive.liveatc.net/kdca/KDCA4-Heli-Jan-30-2025-0130Z.mp3

[baldiedc]

Very tragic night and day, thoughts and prayers for the victims and their families, RIP.

Attaching a merge of the TWR and HELI audios as HELI has some additional chopper comms but not the fixed wing pilot side so neither one is the full picture.  The attached adds comms on the HELI frequency from 0143-0148 to the full TWR clip from 0130Z onwards, otherwise unedited to preserve the timeline.

Timeline based on times assuming TWR clip starts at 01/30/25 0130Z = 01/29/25 8:30pm ET *** SEE UPDATE BELOW

(12min 55sec into clip):

0142.55  JIA5342 checks in with Tower in Final for Rwy 1; Tower asks if they can take Rwy 33 (routine request for CRJ's)
0143.26  JIA5342 accepts 33, told to circle at Wilson bridge and cleared to land Rwy 33.  This is the last communication audible with/from JIA5342.  Wind report for Blackjack1 (USCG) landing at DCA - 330 at 15 gusting 25
0145.03  PAT25 at Memorial Bridge checkpoint (about 2mi North of DCA); acknowledged by Tower
0145.50  PAT25 notified of CRJ south of Wilson Bridge (about 4mi South of DCA) circling for 33, PAT25 confirms in sight, viz sep approved
0147.28  *** Tower asks PAT25 if they have the CRJ in sight and instructed to pass behind it.  PAT25 confirms and requests viz sep. 
0147.49  Tower reaction to crash

*** Update 2/1/25 per NTSB briefing, this radio call from Tower to PAT25 for visual separation with the CRJ occurred at 8:47.39 with impact heard at 8:47.59, so the timestamps on this audio should be considered approx 10s ahead of real-time

[robinnyt]

thank you @baldiedc - can you please explain what  you add/what was missing from each feed? (i'm a newbie so just trying to understand what the different feeds are and how they relate to each other)
Thank you!

[baldiedc]

Sure - with the caveat I am no expert on ATC communications this is just my understanding from listening to KDCA...

On the LiveATC page for KDCA you can see the underlying frequencies for each feed.  JIA5342 would have been on TWR/119.1 and PAT25 on HELI/134.35.

The Tower side of the comms is audible on both, fixed wing pilots are only audible on TWR, chopper pilots only on HELI.

TWR has more overall context for what is happening at DCA but is missing the helicopter pilot responses so I merged that way to get full context in one recording, and just focused on the critical ~5 minute period.  Where you hear a little stereo effect from Tower that is where both feeds had the same audio I just left both to help keep sync.

Specifically, TWR is not picking up the important PAT25 transmissions - check-in with Tower at Memorial Bridge (mandatory checkpoint), and the 2 responses to the visual separations; and then some of the other helicopter coordination (Blackjack-1 landing, Musel-7, Air Care 1 medevac).

Note what we are hearing is thanks to volunteer(s) picking up these frequencies and streaming them to LiveATC, the actual communications being heard by the Tower and pilots could be better quality (or sometimes worse), things may drop out on LiveATC that were audible to pilots etc.  There may also be a lag of a few seconds on the feeds vs. real-time, and the lag on HELI was a few seconds later than TWR that I had to adjust (doing this in audacity as 2 tracks).

[baldiedc]

Adding to this to the topic for context, the Baltimore-Washington helicopter route chart which shows the various standard helicopter routes and zones around DCA

https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/09-05-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Heli.pdf

[baldiedc]

Related - media reporting on another "aborted landing" [= go-around @ 4mi/1500ft] due to helicopter traffic the day before.... posted details on this here

https://forums.liveatc.net/atcaviation-audio-clips/kdca-12825-2000pm-rpa4514-pat11-go-around/

[RonR]

Here's the audio from that one... this time TCAS kicked in...

[baldiedc]

Posting with heartfelt sympathies for the families, friends and colleagues of all those involved in the tragic events on Jan 29th.

Obviously a lot videos and key soundbites have been cut and shared at this point but with varying degrees of detail and context, so I thought this perspective would be helpful to share here.

Attached is an extended EDITED cut of events before and after the crash, from 1/30/25 0130-0245Z (1/29/25 08:30pm - 09:45pm) plus earlier communication from PAT25 at 0112Z.

It is edited for time and content, NOT REALTIME, but in sequence, with some minor shifting to hear simultaneous Tower/Ground communications particularly following the crash.  Not all Ground communications or Ops/Tower communications (esp. static) are included.  The segment from ~0143-0147Z from time of JIA5342 joining DCA Tower until the crash (~7m40s in the clip), is left in realtime.

This is a combination of DCA Final 124.7 (JIA5342 approach only), Tower 119.1, Heli 134.35 and Ground 121.7 frequencies; with some additional PAT25 comms at the start from KGAI CTAF 123.075, and the initial route clearance thru the DCA Bravo north of Bethesda MD, which was captured on the combined LiveATC "KDCA Tower/Approach" feed.

I believe 4 controllers at DCA are audible during this time period - initial controller on Tower through the crash and immediate go-arounds; 2nd controller takes over Tower/Heli from approx 0150Z (~10min into clip) - presumably one of the supervisor/supervisor-trainee noted in the 5 controllers on duty per NTSB; ground controller (female voice); later 4th controller on ground (3rd male voice).

Attached in 2 parts due to file sizes, part 2 in separate post:
- Part 1 (17 mins) - covers 0130-0157Z timeframe, through initial response to the crash to clear the airspace, thru to long conversation with Blackjack-3 and Musel-13
- Part 2 (16 mins) - covers 0157-0243Z timeframe, mainly helicopter response coordination and clearing the remaining planes holding on Rwy 1 etc

Feel free to message/post if questions or notice any key errors/omissions.



Notes on the response to clear the airspace:
- 3 planes on Final with Tower (AAL3130, AAL472, JIA5347) canceled landing clearances (only AAL3130 had been given clearance and AAL472 was mid-comms with tower at time of crash) & go-arounds with later diversions to IAD/BWI via different Potomac App/Dep frequencies.
- 5 planes still with DCA Final diverted to IAD (not in this recording) - one reported low fuel but landed KIAD shortly afterwards
- 3 departures holding for Rwy 1 (DAL832, JBU2523, JIA5305) - witnessed the crash, got a phone number and eventually returned to gate
- Air Force helos MUSEL-7 and MUSEL-13 ordered to land, ultimately both cleared direct to ADW - low fuel & unable to assist
- AIRCARE-1 medevac (cleared by Tower shortly before the crash), lands and is later cleared to Manassas

Responding helos in this timeframe:
- EAGLE-1 (US Park Police)
- BLACKJACK-3 (USCG) instructed to return to DCA and later joined response with Eagle 1.  Tower refers to this as Blackjack-1 a few times (Blackjack-1 lands earlier).  Eagle comments that Blackjack was below 500ft and Eagle above at 500-1000ft.  Blackjack MH65s stationed at DCA are primarily air defense assets not SAR.
- FALCON-2 (DC Police) initially responded, returned to South Cap to allow room for Eagle and Blackjack, later replaced by FALCON-1
- FAIRFAX-1 (Fairfax County Police) operating SW of DCA at the time was ordered to land to clear airspace, later moved to DCA for possible medevac, returned West for fuel
- GUARDIAN-3 (PG County Police) on separate call landed National Harbor then joined the response replacing Blackjack-3 at the end of this excerpt


High Level Timeline (Zulu; approx):

01.12   PAT25 advisory on KGAI CTAF/123.075 (Montgomery County Air Park) that they are at 2000ft 3mi to the West, transitioning West to East.

01.30-3
            PAT25 route clearance with DCA Tower for Cabin John/Route 1/Route 4/Davison.  Both pilots Cpt Lobach and CW2 Eaves can be heard communicating with Tower.
            Tower provides DCA altimeter (2989); later requests Ident; confirms PAT25 is 6mi North of Bethesda @1200ft; approves request.

01.32   JIA5342 checks in with DCA Final Approach

01.39   JIA5342 cleared Mount Vernon Visual Rwy 1 Approach

01.42-3
            JIA5342 switches from DCA Final Approach to DCA Tower; accepts Tower request to take Rwy 33; instructed to circle at Wilson Bridge and cleared to land on 33.

01.44   JZA789 cleared for immediate takeoff Rwy 1, traffic [JIA5307] 2mi out

01.45
            PAT25 reports Memorial Bridge, acknowledged by Tower (mandatory checkpoint - approx 2mi North of DCA)
            AAL3130 cleared to land Rwy 1

01.46   
            Tower/PAT25: "PAT25 traffic just South of Wilson Bridge is a CRJ at one thousand two hundred feet circling for Runway 33” / “PAT25 has traffic in sight request visual separation” / “visual separation approved”
            Tower/AAL1630: “American 1630 Rwy 1 Line Up And Wait; Traffic 3 out for Rwy 33; [inaudible] 6mi final"
            [Note here: JIA5307 has landed, AAL1630 LUAW Rwy 1, JIA5342 is 3mi out for 33; Tower will be waiting to get JIA5307 off Rwy 1 to Ground and send out AAL1630 ahead of JIA5342 landing]
            MUSEL-7 calls at Springfield, told to stand by
            AAL472 calls for landing clearance, no response
            Tower/JIA5307: “Bluestreak 5307 keep rolling down to November, Ground .7 good day"
            Tower/AAL1630: “American 1630 winds are 320 at 14 Gust 25, traffic 2 mile left base Rwy 33, no delay, Rwy 1 cleared for immediate takeoff"
            MUSEL-7 request for Route 3 / Zone 6; approved

01.47
            AAL472 calls 2nd time for landing clearance, no response
            Medevac AIRCARE-1 calls for clearance, Tower provides altimeter (2990), "approved thru Washington class Bravo… report landing assured at Fairfax"
            Tower/PAT25: "PAT25 do you have the CRJ in sight? … PAT25 pass behind the CRJ” /  “PAT25 has the aircraft in sight request visual separation” / Tower responds [inaudible]
            AAL472 calls 3rd time for landing clearance, Tower starts response with winds then audibly reacts to crash and breaks off

01.48
            Tower/AAL3130: G/A left turn 250 climb 3000, heading misheard as 350, confirmed 270
            JIA5347 calls for landing clearance on 33
            Tower/AA472: cancel landing clearance, Rwy 1 continue
            BLACKJACK-3 calls for Zone 6 - approved
            Tower/AAL1380: switch to Departure 118.95 [sounds like AAL1380? but I think this is AAL1630 that just took off]
      
01.49
            Tower/AA472: repeats landing clearance cancellation & continue; AA472 asks for clarification; confirms G/A & climb maintain 3000; requests heading; left 270; switches to Approach 118.95
            JIA5347 calls again on Final

01.50
            Tower/AAL3130: switch to Approach on 118.95 (comes back later finally goes to 124.7)
            AIRCARE-1 calls L/A (no ack from Tower)
            JIA5347 calls again; told to G/A

01.51
            MUSEL-13 calls, told to stand by
            Tower/BLACKJACK-3 asked to return direct to Glebe and land at DCA
            Tower/FAIRFAX-1 told to land immediately
            Tower/MUSEL-7 told to land / go West and contact Dulles tower 120.1

01.52-3
            Tower/JIA5347: Heading 120; later hard right 180; back to 120; to approach 125.65 (KRANT)
            FAIRFAX-1 L/A
            Tower/JIA5305: Hold Short Rwy 1
      
01.54-7
            Tower/Musel-13/Blackjack-3 comms to see if can assist with SAR.  Blackjack-3 takes route 6 over DCA to Anacostia.  Musel-13 low fuel, returns to ADW
            Tower comms with JIA5305, DAL832 on shutting down

01.58   FALCON-2 up with Tower

02.01-02
            Comms with JIA5305, DAL832, JBU2523 on returning to gate / phone number

02.03   EAGLE-1 up with Tower

02.04   FALCON-2 returns to South Cap to allow room for BLACKJACK-3 and EAGLE-1

02.06   MUSEL-7 cleared direct back to ADW

02.07   FAIRFAX-1 proceeds to DCA for possible medevac

02.10   AIRCARE-1 cleared to Manassas
   
02.15   DAL832 starts returning to gate, JIA5305 and JBU2523 follow later

02.16   FAIRFAX-1 returns West for fuel

02.17   GUARDIAN-3 up with Tower from College Park to Zone 4 on separate call

02.21   FALCON-1 up with Tower

02.27-31
            GUARDIAN-3 offers assistance, coordinates with Eagle air-air; lands National Harbor

02.38   BLACKJACK-3 returns to DCA

02.43   GUARDIAN-3 back up with Tower replacing BLACKJACK-3   

(L/A = Landing Assured; G/A - Go Around; excuse the formatting)

[baldiedc]

Part 2 - see notes above

[baldiedc]

Note - based on track from ADSB-Exchange it appears JIA5347 got a late turn to the East @ 120 deg. for the go-around at about 0152Z which caused it to fly through the prohibited area P56-A, passing over the US Capitol at about 3k ft (Tower normally coordinates P56-A with interagency National Capital Region Coordination Center (NCRCC) in Reston VA, who were presumably alerted to the situation at DCA).

[diskus]

During yesterdays briefing NTSB made a correction to say all aircraft were communicating on VHF frequencies with tower rather than any UHF

[RonR]

Interesting that it took them so long to clarify that...the LiveATC audio clips seemed to show that early on. Even the DCA Heli feed provider confirmed he only had VHF on his feed at the time.