Author Topic: ERJ off into the grass at JFK  (Read 26832 times)

Offline mk

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2008, 11:12:48 AM »
they've replaced at least one saab with the dash 8.  not sure when the whole fleet is gonna get replaced

xprtmarksman

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2008, 10:07:42 PM »
I think the improper use of phraseology on the controller's part had a lot to do with the aircraft going into the grass.  "Do this quickly" is never mentioned in FAO 7110.65, nor I am assuming any JFK LOA.  He thought that a go around was not possible on the aircraft behind him because of the controller's tone.  The New Yorker's attitude is not a substitute to posted air traffic phraseology.  Sending the trailing aircraft around would have caused a lot less work overall. 

Offline Acey

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2008, 01:32:16 AM »
Back to the original post... I almost feel sorry when he says "and tower [...] we're off in the grass," because you know the pilot realizes how much trouble it's going to cause. Darn JFK and their ridiculoulsy expedited operations.

Offline cessna157

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2008, 08:55:46 PM »
Yeah, tower shouldn't have gotten on them like that.  But there's nothing we can do about it.  That goes into the file called "Well, its JFK, they're just doing the best they can."  My company did that for a while.  But lately they've been cleaning up the JFK operation.

On a side note, I'll be flying into JFK tomorrow (Thursday) around 15:45ish as COM202 from AUS in a CR9.  Then we depart Friday afternoon as COM17, headed down to ATL in a CR7 at 13:30.  I'll be thinking about all you guys when I'm taxiing around JFK getting yelled at for not using the grass.
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Offline asrlb45

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2008, 10:53:28 PM »
Doesn't Comair hire really low time "flying academy" pilots? Could this have been a factor?

Offline cessna157

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2008, 05:17:25 AM »
Doesn't Comair hire really low time "flying academy" pilots? Could this have been a factor?

Well, No.  Comair's mins are higher than quite a few other airlines.  Could this have been a factor in what?
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Offline asrlb45

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2008, 03:23:05 AM »
Well Comair's mins are 600TT and through Delta Connection Academy they hire with lower TT.  I am a ATP own a small flight school and I was trying to teach a new jet F/O to fly a tailwheel that came from a "flying academy" and from what I can tell that these schools focus a lot on the excellent 121 style CRM training , procedures and extensive knowledge but this student was lacking on basic airmanship and aircraft control when the "unexpected" would happen in a fabric tailwheel.  I have seen pilots handle a 180 with 60 hours TT much much better than this student in a Taylorcraft.  A fabric taildragger is a completely different type of airplane to fly I know, but I was just wondering after this recent experience if maybe a low-time F/O was the flying leg pilot and possibly was flustered when a non-routine request was issued, and if this may have been a factor in running into the grass.  I would think a more experienced pilot would throw out a Part 91.3a qoute to that controller if needed and maintain control of the airplane.    You sir I respect as a fellow professional pilot, I have read and enjoy your posts on this site,  and I am not trying to imply anything negative about the company that pays for your lunch.  Fly Safe!

Offline MathFox

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2008, 06:03:31 AM »
asrlb45, your theory about this mishap is just speculation... (or you should point to a source that shows that the pilot handling this plane had limited experience.) Did you consider other potential factors like fatigue and distraction?

Offline Jason

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2008, 06:55:47 AM »
asrlb45, your theory about this mishap is just speculation... (or you should point to a source that shows that the pilot handling this plane had limited experience.) Did you consider other potential factors like fatigue and distraction?

I think we can all agree that there were many factors involved in the incident that are simply unknown to us without some definitive information from a trusted source.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 06:57:51 AM by Jason »

Offline asrlb45

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Re: ERJ off into the grass at JFK
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2008, 01:44:13 PM »
I agree as well.  I was just wondering if the possibility of a low time pilot could have been a single factor in a very minor incident obviously a result of some sort of pilot error.