LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Aviation Audio Clips => Topic started by: Carro on August 09, 2019, 01:33:53 PM
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They had some issue with their flight plan and instead of refiling it asked to go VFR. Both the Ground controller at JFK and the Departure controller said that they hadn't seen it before so I thought I would capture it.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EDV5578/history/20190809/1320Z/KJFK/KLGA (https://flightaware.com/live/flight/EDV5578/history/20190809/1320Z/KJFK/KLGA)
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Nice recording!
As you can hear the controller was careful not to clear them for the approach but walk around that subject.
Before clearing them for an approach (even a visual one i believe), he would have had to make them IFR.
I'm curious the tracon was that surprised, might be that they didn't quite get what the JFK controllers were asking for when they requested it.
Or it just hadn't trickled through the ranks at the tracon yet :)
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You are correct, a controller cannot clear a VFR aircraft for a published instrument approach. A VFR flight cannot be presumed to have the chart available or the training needed to know how to fly an approach. The preceding aircraft was cleared for the "Expressway Visual". The VFR aircraft was after receiving several vectors and (important) reporting the field in sight instructed to "follow the expressway" which is using visual references only, and then cleared to land. In this case the crew clearly did have the chart and the training and knew exactly what was expected.
Nothing prevents VFR flight in a Class B provided you have the mandatory equipment and a clearance into the Class B. This clip suggests it is rare in the New York area. I have been VFR in the Boston Class B and I don't think it is that unusual there.
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VFR flights in the class B isn't the thing making it rare.
But having one of the commercial operators go VFR is basically unheard of.
Also landing VFR is very very rare at LGA. The environment is just too busy to have someone who can't fly IFR.
JFK occasionally allows VFR into the field with prior coordination. But i've also heard that go sideways more than once.
Landing VFR 22R when the heavies are on a chain into 22L isn't fun.
Controllers also get it wrong or rather confuse the VFR pilots because they speak a different language.
"Cleared for the visual approach 22 R, fly heading 250 to join the final approach course!"
You guessed it, stayed on the 250 heading.
Heard another flight going VFR into 22R veer to the left.
But that was a business jet doing a reposition i believe.
He got to fly a bonus round.
The really unusual thing is the airline flight, even if it's a repo, go VFR.
Most aren't allowed to do that due to internal regulations.
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Ooh good point, I hadn't thought about the company ops manual. I wonder if they maybe got in trouble for it.
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I really though they were doing a repo - like the show airplane repo :-D