LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Aviation Audio Clips => Topic started by: RonR on September 28, 2015, 09:48:01 PM
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This evening EIN11EA lost one of its hydraulic systems shortly after departure from JFK. The flight went into a hold at CCC VOR for about 30 minutes and then returned to JFK. The flight landed at a slightly higher than normal speed resulting in overheating of the main landing gear brakes. The leaking hydraulic fluid ignited on the starboard landing gear but the fire was quickly put out by emergency crews. The aircraft came to a stop on the runway and could not immediately be moved. The passengers were deplaned on the runway. The attached audio is about 15 minutes long and covers the flight from takeoff back to landing at JFK.
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Great edit job, thanks for posting it
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Nice job!
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIN11EA (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIN11EA)
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Thanks! It took a while to put that together...and thanks cptbrw for posting that Flightaware link...I was going to do that but forgot :)
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Yeah, thanks to you guys who take time to compile and post these audios - it is as entertaining as anything on TV and usually more so.
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Awesome post!!! :-) :-)
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A question to the pilots on here. Having worked in aircraft maintenance for 20 years, I have seen one problem lead to others rather quickly. Why, having lost a complete system, this pilot does not declare an emergency? Also why is he not heading back ASAP to get the bird on the ground? It seems like it's no big deal to him. He wants all the emergency equipment and must have a tow off the runway, but not an emergency? Is not what is wrong with the bird qualify as an emergency?
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Sometimes hydraulic failures require more previous work in cockpit to get the aircraft set up for landing than quickly turn back and land or whatever.
Here you can see some other hydraulic troubles where pilots alse decide to work the problem out and set the aircraft up for landing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfXE0-zE6k&index=26&list=PLi0SM524ylKVKmMKHSxwjfefM5PC2sjq-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRCf5sdBqfc
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Great work and comms by the crew, ATC, and JFK.
Just another day in the Office. The 757's are flown by a mixture of Aer Lingus and Air Contractors crews and high on experience
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Thanks, very interesting recording! And great to listen to the calm Aer Lingus crew.
@rustybugs: Concerning hurrying back: with 2 out of 3 redundant hydraulic systems still working fine, they obviously didn't see any short term risk to flight control. Hence, they decided they had plenty of time to fly the plane, walk through all the checklists and make a thorough landing preparation.
The hydraulics redundancy doesn't apply to ground steering (nor to gear door closing) - so they knew they had to be towed off the runway. Still, there wasn't any flight control issue at all, so no need to hurry.
Unnecessary hasty decisions can turn such a non-issue into a catastrophe. Remember the TransAsia pilots who noticed the single engine failure and, within seconds, pulled the engine cut off - unfortunately shutting down the incorrect and only remaining good engine. Had they decided to just keep climbing slowly on one engine, while running their checklists step by step to identify and shutdown the stalled engine - they'd still be alive today. Acting quickly isn't always the best move.
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If you want the ARFF standing by the runway, then you're an emergency. Never be afraid to use the "E Word."
But the crew did a fantastic job handling the mechanical issue and their communication of everything that was going on and what they needed was excellent.
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Is there a specific reason why aircrew might be reluctant to declare an emergency?
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To top it all off... they probably already were being handled as an emergency aircraft, hence why the controller polled them for the SOB and lbs of fuel. Don't forget, a pilot of an aircraft is only one of a few entities that can "declare an emergency" for that aircraft.
You are absolutely correct. This was an emergency as declared by ATC. Could also be declared by the owner, pilot, dispatch...but pretty clearly this was all done by ATC, rightly so. If you need ARFF standing by and to inspect your aircraft after landing, then you are an emergency (the action taken by the ARFF in this case is evidence of that).
The reason why this is actually an issue...Avianca 52. One factor in that deadly crash was the failure of the flight crew to communicate the true emergency nature of their fuel situation. If they had declared an emergency on frequency, you bet your rear-end the controllers would have tried doing things differently. Air traffic controllers are trained to perk up and go on "high alert" if you will when they hear the words "emergency" or "minimum fuel." Communication can save lives and far too often, not specifically in this incident, we see pilots not declare emergencies and they are the only one's that know the true danger they are in. Never be afraid to use the "E word." Unless you are a complete moron and are intentionally and knowingly abusing your ability to declare an emergency (while I do not remember the exact specifics, the guy that landed on the beach near JFK rings a bell), no one is going to call you out for being overly cautious and declaring an emergency. At the end of the day, it's worth the extra paperwork.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd1ShkJP4oQ is a brief clip taken from within the plane after it was on the ground
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Is there a specific reason why aircrew might be reluctant to declare an emergency?
The way I heard it, the crew equated an emergency with a Mayday call. The said it was "only" a PanPan"; a serious problem, but not a urgent one.
In the USA, merge those 2 categories; I fully believe a US pilot would have declared an "emergency".
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Flight track for the flight on the day in question, an earlier link was for the flight number in general.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/EIN11EA/history/20150928/2220Z/KJFK/KJFK
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I've learnt much thanks for the post
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Thanks for the explanations. Greatly appreciated.