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Author Topic: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK  (Read 16846 times)

Offline cptbrw

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a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« on: March 15, 2010, 01:32:34 UTC »
A lot of "go arounds" on the afternoon of March 13th because of high winds.  It will probably be awhile before JFK has as many in a single afternoon again.  This 31 minute clip contains the highlights.



Offline speedotann

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 01:57:53 UTC »
What a fun day! Instead of repeating the wind sheer report every time, the controller should say Delta *** Heavy, wind 090 at 30 gust 47, you probably will go around, but have fun trying!
On another note, I was listening to this with a Pakistani guy at my FBO and he started busting up laughing when Pakistan 711 came up. I did not realize what he was laughing at, he said "how ironic the flight number is 711" :-D

B

Offline keith

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 21:25:26 UTC »
Absolutely fascinating.

It's actually very surprising to hear the constant misunderstanding of peak gusts versus the gust factor.  It was also interesting to hear the Air Mexico guy busting the altitude on the missed, ATC telling him to he can't go to 6, and an anonymous pilot defending the Air Mexico pilot, saying he would do what he had to do to contend with wind shear.

You would think under horrific circumstances like this, with reports of severe turbulence, it would make sense to give the go-arounds a pretty wide berth, laterally and vertically.

Amazing recording, thanks so much for posting it.  I don't envy the jobs of anyone on that day....but least of all, the pilots.

TC

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 22:30:27 UTC »
This is a good example of needing to know that not everything that's done in the tower will come over on the frequency.  If this were me, being busy with the go-arounds, I'd more than likely have a coordinator position (or even supe) doing the coordinations with approach control for all the misses.  When AMX asks for higher (and at 1st he didn't even bother to specify an altitude, so what's the controller supposed to clear him to? heaven?), and I've heard the guy give numerous go-arounds 130 and 2, I figure that's standard.  Higher requires coordination, which is likely being done by someone else at another position. (e.g. "Approach, AMX requesting climb to 6 for windshear"  "Approved" and then coordinator tells local)  That's typical procedure.  But the "helpful harry" anonymous pilot who further congests a busy frequency with his interjection probably doesn't know that, and the controller's "Rah-jer" in reply was perfect.  I don't blame the pilot for not knowing, but that's why he should just do his job, and let the controller do his, which often includes off-air coordinations, which when done quickly and without interruption, will often get the pilot exactly what he needs.  e.g, give AMX 3, do the coordination for 6, and then re-clear him to 6 before he leaves 25.

Offline FWA2500

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 00:41:07 UTC »
i posted this in the BOS thread, but i guess its more relevant here....here is an on-board video on the AF A380 going missed at JFK (my mom was on board and recorded it for me)


Offline laylow

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 03:21:56 UTC »
i posted this in the BOS thread, but i guess its more relevant here....here is an on-board video on the AF A380 going missed at JFK (my mom was on board and recorded it for me)


Very cool video.

Offline otto_pilot

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 15:59:31 UTC »
Question: the Mexico guy had to keep the climb going for a computer on the plane. he cant level at 2 with a windshear warning. its like a tcas resolution where you don't think you just do what it tells you. if tcas tells you to pull up you pull up right? if its telling you windshear its a climb right? he is supposed to follow that no matter what? I think the other pilot was jumping in to try and explain (in better English what Mexico was doing). it was the other pilots intention to help the controller understand why Mexico kept climbing.

Offline cornholio

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 19:00:35 UTC »
Is the whole, unedited, recording available?  I'm not sure how to use the archives, but I'd like to hear how many got in, not just the guys who bailed out.

I have a feeling the JFK seat cushion cleaners were busy-- both in front of and behind the cockpit door...

By the way, I love this, at about 26 minutes:
"I guess we'll give it a shot... cleared to land 4r, KLM 641"
"Good luck!"

Offline atc614

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 03:03:23 UTC »
i was listening to JFK final approach for most of the day... me and my dad just sat on the couch listening to the pilots trying to maintain the localizer and trying to actually land. there was one point when we heard Alitalia 610 coming in and they said they were established on the localizer and then a min or two later the final controller said alitalia please verify you have the correct localizer frequency for runway 4r... they said they did but the winds were pushing them off course by 1.5-2 miles. finally before transferring alitalia 610 to JFK tower the controller mentioned in Italian "in bocca al lupo" meaning good luck... my dad listening with me and being from italy said that doesn't sound very good.... alitalia ended up having to be re-vectored for runway 13L..... That was the craziest day of listening to ATC i have ever heard. people really don't know what goes on behind the scenes but ATC and the PILOTS worked very well together that day.... Something really amazing to witness.

Offline WBrinegar

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2010, 20:29:27 UTC »
What was going on in Shamrock 107's cockpit at about 20:00?

Offline cptbrw

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2010, 21:31:42 UTC »
Not sure but it I think he was dealing with a windshear alarm.  He obviously ended up climbing much higher than the altitude initially assigned on the go around and the AMX flight ahead of him had a windshear alarm that forced him higher.

Offline WBrinegar

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2010, 22:31:35 UTC »
Sounded a bit panicked...  Hair-raising day.    :mrgreen:

Offline Windtee

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Re: a "sporty" afternoon at JFK
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2010, 07:22:13 UTC »
Great collection. I was monitoring JFK live that day. Interesting, to say the least.