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Author Topic: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)  (Read 35974 times)

Offline n0qxw

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28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« on: December 27, 2021, 11:15:31 PM »
Just getting reports of this through media channels.  Now scrubbing ATC archives for audio.  Opening a post here as a heads up, and in case someone is already ahead of me
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 11:25:31 PM by n0qxw »



Offline n0qxw

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2021, 11:31:07 PM »
CAUTION:  STRONG LANGUAGE IN AUDIO.  Listener discretion is advised.

Incident aircraft appears to be N880Z, registered to Med Jet LLC.  According to Flightware, was enroute from KSNA.  Audio is from KSEE with silences trimmed.  Short version:  sounds like a normal IFR arrival, but aircraft requests to squawk VFR and cancel their IFR, then requests a change of runway to 27, given 27R by tower.  Shortly thereafter, screaming and swear words.  No further on the 0300-0330 archive, but I'm digging further.  I wanted to get this clip out now, since it's very apprent that SOMETHING happened.


Offline n0qxw

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2021, 11:32:53 PM »
Here's the arrival track for the subject aircraft.

Offline tyketto

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2021, 01:12:35 AM »

Haven't totally listened to the clip yet, but I wonder if the swearing is from Tower.. I mean, this is the second incident at the field in as many months..

BL.

Offline Sannayven

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2021, 01:53:23 AM »

Haven't totally listened to the clip yet, but I wonder if the swearing is from Tower.. I mean, this is the second incident at the field in as many months..

BL.

It was definitely the pilot. Also, nah, they havent had 2 incidents, the last one was actually a Montgomery Field incident.

Offline Capt LiL

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2021, 11:46:21 AM »
Looking at the RING videos it looked like there was some kind of ground fog. The weather was MVFR at the time. The crash occurred at 0314Z.

KSEE 280355Z VRB05KT 3SM BR SCT011 BKN020 11/09 A2996
KSEE 280255Z VRB05KT 3SM BR BKN020 OVC026 10/08 A2998

I wonder what the experience of the two pilots were.

So sad.

Offline bob_stl

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2021, 12:47:53 PM »
Wow! And he could have just landed on 17 coming straight in. Sad.

Offline Fryy - Avocado Flight

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2021, 12:56:38 PM »
Looks like its a registered air ambulance, I am curious if it was all crew or if they had a patient on board..? Very sad all around regardless.

Offline Duffy

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2021, 01:11:11 PM »
what happened to the archived 0300 segment of KSEE Dec 28 which had the entire 30 min audio stream.  All that's left now are the "oh shit" screams prior to impact?  Who took this down and reposted it with only the screams? 

And..this is their company procedure...to shoot the RNAV approach to runway 17, which is too short (3700') for them to land on, and then cancel IFR, and circle in VFR conditions to 27R.  The approach does not allow circling to land, which is why they cancelled their IFR clearance.  Didn't work this time however.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 01:15:26 PM by Duffy »

Offline Fryy - Avocado Flight

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2021, 01:26:35 PM »
what happened to the archived 0300 segment of KSEE Dec 28 which had the entire 30 min audio stream.  All that's left now are the "oh shit" screams prior to impact?  Who took this down and reposted it with only the screams? 

And..this is their company procedure...to shoot the RNAV approach to runway 17, which is too short (3700') for them to land on, and then cancel IFR, and circle in VFR conditions to 27R.  The approach does not allow circling to land, which is why they cancelled their IFR clearance.  Didn't work this time however.


I'm not sure which one you're referring to with only screams, I still see the full 1 minute audio attached from the tower check-in until the crash.

The audio archive for KSEE for 0300z is also still available: https://www.liveatc.net/archive.php?m=ksee


Offline bob_stl

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2021, 01:28:23 PM »
The full transmission is on the Tower/Del/GND recording. I did the same thing and first just listened to the Tower recording which is not full.

Offline Duffy

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2021, 02:16:22 PM »
Yes...ok, there it is on the Twr/Gnd/Del feed.  Strange that on the tower feed recording, only the screams are heard, and none of the preceeding transmissions.

Offline n0qxw

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2021, 03:00:24 PM »
Looks like its a registered air ambulance, I am curious if it was all crew or if they had a patient on board..? Very sad all around regardless.

From the data from Flightaware as gathered near the time of the incident, this flight wasn't tagged as MEDEVAC.  Additionally, looking at flight history, it could be deduced that this aircraft was based at KSEE based on the amount of trips anchored there.  My guess is a positioning flight after a mission.

Offline n0qxw

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2021, 03:04:35 PM »
Yes...ok, there it is on the Twr/Gnd/Del feed.  Strange that on the tower feed recording, only the screams are heard, and none of the preceeding transmissions.

Yeah, that is bizarre, but I think that's an artifact of the stream/streamer.  That specific feed was like that when I was scrubbing for additional data shortly (<30min) after I posted my original file.  I doubt anyone would have gone to the trouble to scrub and re-upload the feed.

Offline n0qxw

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2021, 03:12:07 PM »
BTW, here's a video from last night from a residence in the area -- I know it's been acquired by multiple local media, but this appears to be the source.  Note the aircraft appears to be REALLY low (like below TPA), and appears to be in a high bank turn.  Sorry I didn't get this out sooner, I was kinda tired here in UTC-7 land.


Offline Danno_FZ1

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2021, 03:41:28 PM »
Snapshot of the last data on ADS-B Ex.  From the audio it sounds like he was asking for the field lights to be turned up while he was circling to land.  The response was "they're at 100% now."  Decent rate and airspeed are telling.

Offline n0qxw

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2021, 04:00:53 PM »
Here's some aerial footage from Channel 8 in San Diego from earlier this morning.  I'm not even going to try to comment and second guess on what I'm seeing here.


Offline comperini

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2021, 04:45:48 PM »
From those security cam videos, it sure looked like there was a lot of reflections of cloud/precip from the lights on that plane. Not sure how VFR that is


Offline arunhn

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2021, 05:24:15 PM »
Here's some aerial footage from Channel 8 in San Diego from earlier this morning.  I'm not even going to try to comment and second guess on what I'm seeing here.



Man.. look at that.  There is barely any forward momentum in that crash zone.  It is as if someone did a drop test with that Lear.  How sad :(

Offline Danno_FZ1

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2021, 09:14:17 PM »
The flash from the impact and/or power lines illuminated some of the clouds that obscured the runway from his position.


Offline RI-Pilot

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2021, 11:32:13 PM »
One oddity is that the pilots made a call to the tower while still on the approach frequency.  The approach controller sent him to the tower frequency.   Minor mistake a rookie like me makes with 700 hours in a Cessna 172, but not an error I would expect from pilots of a turbine aircraft with a lot more training.  I wonder if it might indicate the pilots were distracted.   

The call I'm speaking of is at 8 mins in to the attached audio.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 11:39:08 PM by RI-Pilot »

Offline marcfeld1990

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Re: 28 DEC 2021 0315Z: Aircraft Crash, El Cajon CA (near KSEE/KSAN)
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2022, 09:24:48 AM »
A couple of questions:

Is it typical (at most airports) for the runway used for visual approaches to be shorter than the runway on which there's an instrument approach?

Also, some airports, like KPWK have a circle to land instrument approach that's standard. I'm thinking that KSEE doesn't have that type of approach and
the change in runway was per pilot request.

Also, I'm thinking that the video that appears to simulate being in the flight deck that was posted by some outlets is computer generated and doesn't have anything to do with a camera or other aircraft-specific equipment.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 09:29:21 AM by marcfeld1990 »