Author Topic: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.  (Read 12284 times)

Offline Himerzi

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Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« on: March 27, 2007, 10:08:40 PM »
 Its pretty entertaining....if u speak Spanish. I realize this is in spanish, so for those of you that dont speak it but are interested in understanding a little explantion foollows below..  There are a few feeds on liveatc coming from places where spanish is the spoken language and the mexico feed has been getting quite a few listeners recently so im hoping that theres a group of people on this website who might appreciate this.
 8-)
Taken from Mexico City Approach. Theres a bit of conversation before the good stuff actually starts in the clip so wait a couple of secs.The app. controler and an aeromar pilot have a small verbal fight. A basic overview of what happens for those that cant understand what is being said : The controller makes a mistake in telling the wrong  flight (aeromar 346) to contact tower, but quickly corrects his error by telling the aeromar 346 flight to stay with him and aeromar 347 to contact tower. For some reason the 346 pilot gets quite pissed at the controller for his error and tells the controller that  that he told him to "contact tower and that he should speak more clearly". He addresses the controler in a form that is regarded as quite disrespectfull in spanish which ends up setting the controler off and the fight continues. They eventually settle down at the end with one of the pilots on frequency telling them that "the frequency is not  for your disputes" and another pilot saying "children, behave" at the end.

---If this clip did something for you (made u laugh or helped improve your spanish among other things) let me know so that I can have a reason to post some more. And if not let me know too.. i understand if this clip doesn't have a place on an english speaking website.
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y para los que hablan español..pues escuchen a el clip y digan me que les parece. Esta bastante entretenido y se nota que los dos participantes en el argumento se empiezan a enojar bastante.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2007, 08:23:47 PM by Himerzi »



Offline Studentpilo

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 10:16:41 PM »
Wow this is a true test of my highschool spanish! Unfortunately I am not quite there (still have 2.25 years left though!) although did the pilot say something about being equal and the controller saying that they were not equal (they being the pilot and controller)?

Nice find

Cheers

Offline Himerzi

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2007, 10:29:31 PM »
Wow this is a true test of my highschool spanish! Unfortunately I am not quite there (still have 2.25 years left though!) although did the pilot say something about being equal and the controller saying that they were not equal (they being the pilot and controller)?

Nice find

Cheers
Yea. After the controller says he made a mistake the pilot responds to him in a form of adressing a person in spanish which is disrespectfull (this "form" does no exist in  english, where you can only adress a person  as "you" whereas in spanish there is you and then there is another kind of way, another type of way of saying "you" which is considered disrespectfull when talking to some people) Basically the pilot stopped adressing the controller as "Sir" and started saying "you", which really pissed him off and that and is evident in his response to the pilot. THe pilot then responds by saying  that "indeed we are not equal" (which i guess he meant  as an insult" and tells him he will return to reffering to him in a different way. THe controlelr then says that " you are right we are not equal" I guess they both over react but the pilot a bit more.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 07:41:36 AM by Himerzi »

Offline inigo88

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2007, 07:58:12 AM »
They spoke very fast and I barely know spanish anymore, but was the issue because the pilot started using Tú instead of Usted?

Offline Himerzi

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2007, 10:03:56 AM »
Yep. Thats exactly right... its what angered the controller.

Offline Studentpilo

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2007, 04:19:01 PM »
Wow this is a true test of my highschool spanish! Unfortunately I am not quite there (still have 2.25 years left though!) although did the pilot say something about being equal and the controller saying that they were not equal (they being the pilot and controller)?

Nice find

Cheers
Yea. After the controller says he made a mistake the pilot responds to him in a form of adressing a person in spanish which is disrespectfull (this "form" does no exist in  english, where you can only adress a person  as "you" whereas in spanish there is you and then there is another kind of way, another type of way of saying "you" which is considered disrespectfull when talking to some people) Basically the pilot stopped adressing the controller as "Sir" and started saying "you", which really pissed him off and that and is evident in his response to the pilot. THe pilot then responds by saying  that "indeed we are not equal" (which i guess he meant  as an insult" and tells him he will return to reffering to him in a different way. THe controlelr then says that " you are right we are not equal" I guess they both over react but the pilot a bit more.

Are you referring to using the tu form instead of usted? *Crosses fingers*

Go Highschool spanish GO!!

Offline Himerzi

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2007, 04:45:47 PM »
Haha yea.... this thread is slowly turning into a spanish second-person pronouns discussion  :-D. Anyway i foundhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-V_distinction  for a good explanation of how this Tu- Usted stuff works for those of u looking for a thorough explanation.

Offline Studentpilo

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 08:21:37 PM »
Ya I just couldnt hear if that was the problem. They spoke too fast for me to hear a difference between "-a" and "-as"

Thanks!

Offline mpflood

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2007, 12:11:19 AM »
Interesting,
Glad you posted this.
Flamers disclaimer was good too!  :)

I always thought that English was the "official" language of ATC?

Not true in some places?

Offline blizzard242

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2007, 12:51:06 AM »
Whats up, I thought that ICAO mandates that all atc transmissions are to be in English.

Offline Himerzi

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2007, 07:49:46 AM »
Hmm I have never heard of that. I do know though that alll controllers are requiered to be able to speak and transmit atc instructions in english (thats how they talk to all foreign aircraft). But as you can see spanish is spoken in Mexico atc, I know portuguese is spoken in brazil Atc, Im pretty sure spanish is also spoken in argentina, honduras, costa rica and I ASSUME that every other spanish speaking nation. But its also pretty interesting how in most arab speaking countries instead of speaking arabic in at,c english is spoken, I wonder who makes the decision of what language is spoken and why thr edecision to use english was made instead of arabic, does anaybody know why ?????? I think but correct me if im wrong, that they also use english in germany instead of german.

Offline Studentpilo

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2007, 04:29:57 PM »
Whats up, I thought that ICAO mandates that all atc transmissions are to be in English.

As Himerzi nicely put it. ICAO mandates that the controller BE ABLE TO speak English and that the pilots BE ABLE TO speak English. Native languages are allowed, however. In Hungary you hear Hungarian on frequency between Hungarian ATC and Malev pilots a lot.

Offline The Hoffspatcher

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Re: Controler-Pilot dispute Mx App.
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2007, 07:28:19 PM »
This goes back to World War II (1944) in Chicago and was mandated when ICAO was established (the Chicago Convention).  There are something like 16 annexes to to the Convention and in there it states that English is the offical language of air traffic control.

As Himerzi said, in Spain they speak Spanish, in France they speak French etc.  There is no problem with this except it degrades English only speaking pilots' sense of situational awareness.

As an example, a few seconds ago the Mexico City approach controllers were conversing with Mexicana in Spanish and then went to speaking to Japan Airlines in English.

From next year (2008) ICAO is mandating all air traffic controllers and pilots must be able to pass an ICAO English test, which I personally see as long overdue.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2007, 07:30:58 PM by bhoffman »
Ben Hoffman; BAv, ADX
Trust your Dispatcher!