Author Topic: Colgan 3268 - May 12, 2009 - KEWR-KBUF - Lost Wheel on Landing - Dash 8-400  (Read 63526 times)

kea001

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Not a stupid question. It was the $1,000,000 question. Even the expert quoted here had expressed the opinion that icing was the cause of the crash.

The Crash of Flight 3407: Interview with Greg Feith, Former NTSB Investigator

http://www.petergreenberg.com/2009/02/17/the-crash-of-flight-3407-interview-with-greg-feith-former-ntsb-investigator

But as Jason had mentioned in a previous thread, these investigations always take an unexpected turn. Unfortunately, I would say that the media saturation of the erroneous conclusion that Q-400's are terrible in ice has probably been etched into the subconscious of many fliers; if not for the engineering then for the fact that it's hit or miss that you get a pilot who knows how to fly the darn thing in ice.  :evil:
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 09:51:07 PM by kea001 »

Offline otto_pilot

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just a quick question........would it be an OK idea in a dash to try and hold the right side off? (the wheel that broke off was on the right?). I would assume (knowing nothing about a dash or how it would handle this type of landing) that by touching down on the left mains and killing some airspeed would have made a safer landing. I'm not saying this was unsafe, but I'm saying the problem was not the strut but the tire so why put in on the ground until as slow as possible. You would not be risking a collapse because the strut is in good working order. What that idea is an idea if it falls off you have a lot less distance to roll on it until the plane stops. I know a skyhawk you can land in a similar manner in a cross wind..... a left cross wind you could touch the left mains 1st and then set in on the ground so your wing is into the wind. 100% different though. just a dumb idea.

Anthony
tower: right delta ground point niner
pilot: Uh tower did you mean to say ground point 8 or do you want us to try them on point 9.
tower: Oh yea point 8 would work better, wouldnt it

Offline cessna157

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just a quick question........would it be an OK idea in a dash to try and hold the right side off? (the wheel that broke off was on the right?). I would assume (knowing nothing about a dash or how it would handle this type of landing) that by touching down on the left mains and killing some airspeed would have made a safer landing. I'm not saying this was unsafe, but I'm saying the problem was not the strut but the tire so why put in on the ground until as slow as possible. You would not be risking a collapse because the strut is in good working order. What that idea is an idea if it falls off you have a lot less distance to roll on it until the plane stops. 

No, slower does not equal safer.  More on that in a second.

I checked our QRH (CRJ) and it does not give guidance on single tire failure.  It only provides information about: 1) One main landing gear up/unsafe; 2) nose landing gear up/unsafe; 3) both main landing gear up/unsafe; 4) all landing gear up/unsafe.

Back to your recommendation.  A slower airspeed at touchdown would most likely produce a higher vertical rate.  In the QRH for landing gear malfunctions, it says to touchdown with minimum vertical speed and a forward speed not less than stick shaker speed.  Basically, it is saying to fly gently down, but not too slow.

Holding a little weight off of the strut is an option, but not necessarily important.  These transport category aircraft are built with this failure in mind (one of the reasons of having 2 wheels on each strut).  If it were a smaller aircraft with only 1 wheel per strut, then by all means, hold it off as long as possible.

Your best bet is to make a normal landing, as smoothely as possible, with as little crosswind as possible, and try not to put too much stress on the remaining parts.
CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent

Offline otto_pilot

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OK thanks. that dose make sense i didn't take the vertical speed into account really.
tower: right delta ground point niner
pilot: Uh tower did you mean to say ground point 8 or do you want us to try them on point 9.
tower: Oh yea point 8 would work better, wouldnt it

kea001

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"The FAA document states that a passenger noted smoke coming from the #3 wheel when the aircraft took off from Newark, New Jersey. The passenger notified a Colgan Air Flight Attendant who told the passenger that...

he could tell the Captain exactly what he saw after the plane landed in Buffalo."

Isn't that useful. LOL!

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/local/FAA_report_sheds_light_on_May_incident_20090616

Offline atcman23

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HAHAHA!  Well, the flight attendant's have to start somewhere too.  But it sounds like it could be a brake rubbing against a pad or something, in which case, you have to land to find out for sure so yeah, it didn't do much good to tell the pilot that anyhow.
Mark Spencer

Offline joeyb747

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HAHAHA!  Well, the flight attendant's have to start somewhere too.  But it sounds like it could be a brake rubbing against a pad or something, in which case, you have to land to find out for sure so yeah, it didn't do much good to tell the pilot that anyhow.

True, in this case. But if I see something that I don't think is right, I'm going to say something! Anyone remember Aloha 242? Roof flew off over the ocean...a passenger noticed cracks near the door while boarding, but never said anything...
Aircraft Mechanic

Offline B1900Mech

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Re: Colgan 3268 - May 12, 2009 - KEWR-KBUF - Lost Wheel on Landing - Dash 8-400
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2009, 12:27:47 AM »
Torque Wrench? Na!!