Author Topic: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed  (Read 16820 times)

Offline Yegger

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Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« on: August 20, 2006, 01:10:44 AM »
Keep in mind this is the TERMINAL frequency; arrival and departure were combined.  152 was told to contact the tower on 118.7 after passing the marker.  Took me a second to realize it then I burst out laughing.



Offline w0x0f

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2006, 03:39:38 PM »
Now that's some good, not so clean fun.   :evil:

w0x0f

Offline kkjlai

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2006, 03:30:01 PM »
So I presumed that the pilot was cleared to land from the Terminal controller (possibily advised by the Tower), and I also assume that the tower cannot contact AC152 on freq 118.7 that's when [tower] asked [Terminal] to relay the clearence?

Do you have the date and time that this happened so I can go back to the archive and listen again (for a better picutre)?


Offline michaelawai

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2006, 04:55:21 PM »
heyy,, i caught my home airline in that clip West Indian  603 comin back to trinidad..  :-D

Offline Pygmie

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2006, 09:47:32 PM »
So I presumed that the pilot was cleared to land from the Terminal controller (possibily advised by the Tower), and I also assume that the tower cannot contact AC152 on freq 118.7 that's when [tower] asked [Terminal] to relay the clearence?

Do you have the date and time that this happened so I can go back to the archive and listen again (for a better picutre)?



Yes, that is exactly what would have happened.  The Terminal controller has absolutely no authority to clear aircraft to land, so the Tower would have told the terminal controller over the hotline to clear him to land and switch him over, since he was probably very close to the field at that point.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 11:13:08 PM »
This clip is great... I'm glad they discovered what the problem was!  It reminds me of this clip when they didn't get their "cleared to land" either...
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php/topic,1995.0.html

What exactly is the hotline, and how does it work?  Is it an internal system...?  Does it ring just like a telephone?
Serving you with CYVR... =)

Offline Pygmie

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 11:37:19 PM »
Controllers (at least in Canada) have 2 ways of communicating with other controllers (other then just shouting down the line), which are hotlines and interphones.

Interphones work exactly like your home phone would, except you don't dial a number, you just hit the button on the touch screen for who you want to call (although if something breaks, there are numbers assinged that you can dial the old way).  The phone rings, the other controller answers, and the line stays open until someone hits end.  The interphones are typically used for longer calls that aren't as time-critical, for example passing estimates.  There are also interphones to all the non-control positions such as Flight Service stations, Flight planning, etc.

The hotlines are used for more time-critical matters, or for very short items that don't warrent a call on the interphone.  Hotlines are operated using the same touch screen as the interphones, but the big difference is when you touch the button for the hotline to another controller, you are instantly talking to him.  As long as your finger is on the button, everything you say is going right into his ear.  The hotlines are used for things like handoffs to other centers, coordination with other controlllers (i.e. could you send ABC123 direct XYZ for traffic, etc.), and pretty much anything else other then passing estimates.

Offline Yegger

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2006, 02:39:40 AM »
Happened at about 0421Z on August 20.  So about 21 minutes into the 0400 for August 20.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 08:59:23 PM »
Thanks, pygmie... are there rings/tones that alert the controller of a 'hotline' message?  How does this not conflict with the controller giving instructions to aircraft?
Serving you with CYVR... =)

Offline Pygmie

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2006, 10:33:34 PM »
They will conflict with other messages, that is inevitable, which is why the hotline messages are short and sweet.  One of the most important skills a controller has to learn in training is the ability to listen to two things at once, or talk to one person while listening to another.

Usually the hotline calls begin with a quick message to get the other controllers attention, usually in the form of something like "departure, east" (the east sector controller calling the departure controller).  When the departure controller has a second, he'll come back with something like "go ahead", or "departure's on", or something of that sort.  If he doesn't quite catch who was calling him, he can look over at the comm screen and the hotline that is active will be flashing.

If the hotline call's something very quick, like just saying "pointout approved" or "Don't need him, you're control" when the aircraft is handed off to you, you just hit the hotline and say it, and the other controller will pick it up even if they are in the middle of a transmission or something.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2006, 05:01:38 PM »
They will conflict with other messages, that is inevitable, which is why the hotline messages are short and sweet.  One of the most important skills a controller has to learn in training is the ability to listen to two things at once, or talk to one person while listening to another.

Man, I knew I had the talent to become a controller!   I do this all the time when my wife is talking.  :)  :)
Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY

Offline Yegger

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2006, 03:31:46 AM »
They will conflict with other messages, that is inevitable, which is why the hotline messages are short and sweet.  One of the most important skills a controller has to learn in training is the ability to listen to two things at once, or talk to one person while listening to another.

Man, I knew I had the talent to become a controller!   I do this all the time when my wife is talking.  :)  :)

Priceless.

Offline GhostRider

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Re: Air Canada 152 A Little Dazed
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2006, 02:30:34 AM »
They will conflict with other messages, that is inevitable, which is why the hotline messages are short and sweet.  One of the most important skills a controller has to learn in training is the ability to listen to two things at once, or talk to one person while listening to another.

Usually the hotline calls begin with a quick message to get the other controllers attention, usually in the form of something like "departure, east" (the east sector controller calling the departure controller).  When the departure controller has a second, he'll come back with something like "go ahead", or "departure's on", or something of that sort.  If he doesn't quite catch who was calling him, he can look over at the comm screen and the hotline that is active will be flashing.


That is very similar to what we flight controllers do on the voice-loops in the space program.  Except we aren't talking to aircraft.  Mostly to other controllers and support teams during real time operations.  Well, there is at least one "flight", the ISS.  :wink:  There are times when you have to listen to a buch of loops at the same time and follow parallel conversations.  Thank goodness for the volume level control feature for the different voiceloops!