LiveATC Discussion Forums
Air Traffic Monitoring => Aviation Audio Clips => Topic started by: keith on September 18, 2006, 05:33:44 PM
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I hadn't listened to my feed for a while, so I fired it up today, and not 5 minutes later, heard the following exchange between a Cessna and Morristown tower, a Class D field just outside of NYC.
There is a Temporary Flight Restriction (TFR) today covering the lateral limits of the Class B airspace (a big chunk of sky around NJ/NY), from surface to FL180. This pilot misunderstood the dimensions of the TFR. Hilarity ensues.
Poor guy, he actually handles it pretty well, given the cirumstances. As luck would have it, the exchange happens from 2026z to around 2035z, and some convo is lost during the archive rollover.
The lost content consists of the pilot asking whether he can make repeated departures from the airport, and if memory serves, the controller asks if the Cessna has his escort in sight.
Edited archive is attached, removed some silence (although I kept the brief silence that follows after the first mention of the F16 escort). It's a brown trousers moment that I couldn't trim.
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You were right about the pilot handling the situation well...I probably would have been crying if that happened to me. Does anybody know what number that was he had to call? And what kind of consequences will he face since he violated the TFR?
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You were right about the pilot handling the situation well...I probably would have been crying if that happened to me. Does anybody know what number that was he had to call? And what kind of consequences will he face since he violated the TFR?
The number Morristown tower gave to the pilot rings N90 (NY TRACON) in Westbury, LI. Most likely not a direct line to the Operation (Radar) Room; however it probably goes to the supervisor on duty at the time or an FAA representative. Usually they give you the number for the nearest FSDO, but in this case it's a number to the TRACON.
To me, it appears he violated 14 CFR §91.141 (Flight restrictions in the proximity of the Presidential and other parties.) (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=397155fe7f62b8346065c4ea460832e6&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.2.4.24&idno=14) in addition to §91.103 (Preflight action.) (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=397155fe7f62b8346065c4ea460832e6&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.3.10.2.4.2&idno=14)
Not sure what kind of consequences he'll face for violating the TFR...that's up the FAA.
Although I do agree the pilot did handle the situation well, I have a hard time trying to figure out how some pilots either don't know the specific details of such a TFR, if any. §91.103 (which I freakishly have memorized) states "Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight." I received at least 1 (possibly 2) e-mails from AOPA regarding the NY Airspace TFR, and the TFR is graphically depicted on many sources. Sigh.
Jason
P.S. Good catch, Keith! Thanks for posting. Hopefully many pilots can learn from this incident.
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For a moment I thought that was the same pilot who really botched the OSH arrival over the summer. The voices were similar. However, after re-listening to the OSH clip, I discovered the tail ids were different.
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This may not be his only problem. I just looked up the tail number N8192L and the FAA web site had this to say...
ATTENTION!
This aircraft's registration status may not be suitable for operation.
Please contact the Aircraft Registration Branch at 1-866-762-9434 for additional information.
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So what phone number are They talking about?
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So what phone number are They talking about?
I just tried calling it and its been disconected
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So what phone number are They talking about?
I just tried calling it and its been disconected
Why would you do that? This is why phone numbers should be beeped out of recordings. Sigh.
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So what phone number are They talking about?
Controllers give a pilot a phone number to call when they violate a regulation, in this case he busted into a TFR. Its the one thing pilots dread the most. Once you land you call it and its usually goes to the ATC supervisor and they talk things out to see what happened and if it is severe enough the case goes to the FAA for an enforcement action.
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So what phone number are They talking about?
I just tried calling it and its been disconected
Thats stupid of you.
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I feel sorry for that guy ... lets remember to read those NOTAMs people, or, call 1-800-WX-BRIEF and have them read to you :lol:
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Good luck getting an FSS on the phone :roll:
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Good luck getting an FSS on the phone :roll:
Ha ha, they have gotten slower lateley!
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From what I hear, a "Temporary" Flight Restriction could be expired before they pick up the line... :roll:
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From what I hear, a "Temporary" Flight Restriction could be expired before they pick up the line... :roll:
I can vouch for this. It's a good thing that plenty of weather outlets exist online (like ADDS, etc.). I waited 20 minutes for an FSS person to pick up twice in the last 3 days. The first time I just gave up. Yesterday the FSS guy that answered heard me complaining to my passengers - he picked up right in the middle of my rant and profusely apologized for the delay. Apparently they have fewer people on staff now. Is pilot and passenger safety something we as a community really want to skimp on?
I hope Lockheed-Martin has a lot of liability insurance - if an accident were to happen due to FSS never providing this much needed service, a service that pilots are *trained* to use, then I fear their useful life providing this service will be short.
Where is the accountability?
-dave
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I hope Lockheed-Martin has a lot of liability insurance -....
I can't vouch for the accuracy of this article, but according to the FAAFollies, Lockheed-Martin has a way of handling that liability:
http://www.faafollies.com/?p=191 (http://www.faafollies.com/?p=191)
Where is the accountability?
Geez, Dave. What century are you living in? :roll:
(I would use the winking smily to indicate sarcasm, but that sort of connotes something cute or funny, and there's nothing cute or funny about this.)
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I think you guys have "handling the situation well" confused with him being totally oblivious to the severity of his situation.
Who asks if they can still pick up their passenger and leave again when they're being intercepted by F-16s? :roll:
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I think you guys have "handling the situation well" confused with him being totally oblivious to the severity of his situation.
Who asks if they can still pick up their passenger and leave again when they're being intercepted by F-16s? :roll:
This is true, but he could have just changed frequencies and did whatever he wanted to until they shot him down. Panic stricken pilots (not too many of those out there) tend to do very erratic things. That wouldn't be such a good case of handling the situation well.
Definitely agree with your last question though. It's bad and stupid enough to enter a TFR, let alone enter a TFR and ask to drop pax off and then leave. :|
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I agree with the bpost above.
The pilot knew what was going on, but it wont don on to him till the next morning.
F-16S!!!!!!!!
I love how th atc said, ull be escorted by f-16's.
LOL!!!
Knowing how cool he was i was noy supprised he didnt say:
"Sweet i love F-16's, now when are the comi....( fly right pas him ) I found em!"
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"Are you familiar with the Rockaway Mall over Route 10?"
Odd. By the way, it's Route 80, not 10.