AWE2039 vs. DCA tower

[jxlars]

This is from Friday 5/20 at about 4:15 local time. Captain of the aircraft was not happy with the spacing given during his approach into DCA

 - Aircraft checks in around the 13:58 mark of the recording on a 5 mile right base.
 - Tower clears 2 aircraft for T/O and the captain is not happy with the spacing.
 - Captain makes an offhand comment about 'pressing it' around 16:42 mark
 - After Landing, there is an exchange between 17:20 - 17:52 where the tower is clearly argumentative.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kdca/KDCA-Twr-May-20-2011-2000Z.mp3

[Regalswan]

Trimmed down the clip to the more interesting stuff. Did NOT leave in dead air between all clearance deliveries.

[rpd]

If theydidn't run them tight, or run squeeze plays at DCA, the delays would be crazy.  They essentially are a single runway operation.

[StuSEL]

- After Landing, there is an exchange between 17:20 - 17:52 where the tower is clearly argumentative.

Yeah, and so is the pilot! Like Tower said, that's a totally legal operation. Yeah, 2 miles is a super tight operation, but they gotta get 'em in. ATC is not the one responsible for the outrageous scheduling the airlines are allowed to book in and out of these hubs.

[Dave_B]

Yeah, and so is the pilot! Like Tower said, that's a totally legal operation. Yeah, 2 miles is a super tight operation, but they gotta get 'em in. ATC is not the one responsible for the outrageous scheduling the airlines are allowed to book in and out of these hubs.

ATC is responsible for these clearances. The "airlines" are the last people to blame. They are not responsible for two airliners being squeezed in with someone on a 4m final and a clearance to roll (who knows what kind of a delay there was) for the last A/C when the guy is on a 2m final. I don't blame the captain for being irritated. The controller is pretty cavalier with his attitude about going around. It's doubtful that he is a pilot.

The other illogical part of assigning blame to "the airlines" is that even if arrivals and departures are scheduled *an HOUR* apart, delays could cause a bunch-up in arrivals or departures. It is up to ATC to handle that. Not pilots, and certainly not "the airlines".

[StuSEL]

Notice how I didn't place all the blame on the airlines. There are many (usually) local government regulations as to when flights can be booked. Just look at New York as an example. The government's problem is that they repeatedly allow airlines to exceed the safe capacity of the National Airspace System, and that's when situations like this have to happen.

[sacex250]

You should've added a few more pertinent details:

15:57 - The controller clears the aircraft to takeoff advising them landing traffic is on a two-mile final.

16:37 - Pilot who is on short final feels he needs to make comment forty seconds after the departing aircraft was cleared to takeoff.

16:48 - Tower switches departing aircraft to departure eleven seconds after pilot's comment about spacing.

17:15 - Tower gives landing aircraft turn-off instructions during roll-out twenty-two seconds after previous aircraft was switched to departure, forty-three seconds after pilot's comment, and one minute and eighteen seconds after previous aircraft was cleared to takeoff.

Yeah, it was close, but it worked.  

What's the pilot doing griping on short final about an aircraft that's already off the ground.  There are only two alternatives at that point; either land or go-around.  Heck, if the controller wanted to be argumentative his reaction to the pilot's comment could have been to make the go-around decision for him, then I'd bet the pilot would've been whining that he could've made it.  

It sounds like the pilot had already anticipated landing behind the first departing aircraft and then was surprised that the controller squeezed another plane out in front of him, and he didn't like it.

It was a useless comment at the moment he said it, and it just comes off as road rage.

--

[UPRRSLO]

I wonder how many missed approaches this guy makes tomorrow just to make a point? You can hear him on the audio that it happened "last night" as well.