airtraffic

Author Topic: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke  (Read 106483 times)

Offline Logan302

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • http://www.natca.org
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2010, 05:56:00 PM »
For comparison, how about this one?
Is this a kid, or a real controller (Working KBOS Ground today...)

Audio in question is a 40+ yr old female controller at BOS.

Offline graysono

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Greetings from Middle Earth!
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2010, 06:18:12 PM »
It's been one of the top of our TV/Radio news today here in NZ!  :roll: Must't be much else going on.

Grayson
Tauranga, New Zealand

Offline emshighway

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2010, 06:35:47 PM »
FAA investigating a second incident the next day involving the same controller but a different child. Two transmissions were made.

Offline Deskpilot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2010, 07:10:05 PM »
A hard one to call in view of the governing legislation controlling the job, but if as suggested it was a bring a kid to work day to see what dad/mum does, I heard the tx and the kid was better than some regulars I have heard, it doesn't make it right but as some one said it could I am sure it can be handled in house and I bet it won`t happen again.
Too late. The Pit Bulls of the world media see a scandal in this and are remaking a grain of salt into the next high altitude mountainous obstacle to rival Mt. Everest. The FAA is going to have to publish new flight pubs for the NYC terminal area so that both controllers and pilots will avoid impact with reality.

Another $42M consultancy from some never before heard from consortium,  $14M to survey the entire area, $12M in printing and distribution costs, and a $200M campaign to recruit young men and women into the field we admire and respect.

Offline StuSEL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 259
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2010, 07:14:38 PM »
That kid did an amazing job, BUT human lives are in play even when it comes to takeoff clearance, so yes this was unacceptable.
There's a difference between giving a blind takeoff clearance and a supervised takeoff clearance. If the controller had left the youngster to give takeoff clearances and departure handoffs to himself, then yea, that would be an inexcusable problem. But no, the controller was (and presumably an additional supervisor, and heck, probably more certified controllers were) undoubtedly watching his movement areas at all times when the kid was issuing instructions; he was also issuing landing clearances on the same frequency. This controller (you can tell by his voice) has been on the position forever and knows what he's doing. Logically speaking, he wouldn't risk his job by performing an unsafe operation. Radio instructions are only a fraction of what it takes to issue a safe takeoff clearance. Scanning the runway, coordinating with the departure controller, scanning the arrival corridor, knowing who's up next, knowing the wind, looking at the radar feed, and so much more is involved with the issuance of a takeoff clearance than a small child could handle, which is my reasoning for supporting the controller. He wasn't being stupid about it.

There's no reason to believe that safety was compromised, however, I understand that is the reasoning behind the investigation.

Offline alexl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2010, 07:20:03 PM »
@abqnav
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/new-kjfk-controller/
didn't see it there either, would someone pls post a direct link to the mp3 thx

Offline airplaneboy00

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2010, 07:23:42 PM »
@abqnav
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/new-kjfk-controller/
didn't see it there either, would someone pls post a direct link to the mp3 thx
I'm completely new to this site; it's really not that hard. In small text at the bottom of that post, there's a link to the mp3 saying:

New KJFK Controller.mp3 (1139.68 KB - downloaded 2455 times.)


Offline alexl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2010, 07:33:42 PM »
@abqnav
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/new-kjfk-controller/
didn't see it there either, would someone pls post a direct link to the mp3 thx
I'm completely new to this site; it's really not that hard. In small text at the bottom of that post, there's a link to the mp3 saying:

New KJFK Controller.mp3 (1139.68 KB - downloaded 2455 times.)


yeah yeah I have bad S.A.

Offline Hollis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2010, 07:43:29 PM »
As someone said earlier - 'much ado about nothing'. But since the media has blasted it literally around the world now, those in the upper echelon of the FAA have to do a little CYA control.
The controller and his supervisor have been suspended pending an 'official investigation'.
My advice to the FAA would be to lighten up a bit. Your stressed-out folks need a little diversion once in a while. The situation purely innocent, and flight safety was never in any way compromised.
Overall, I think that the whole episode was fun.
  

Offline olseric

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2010, 08:39:35 PM »
Unfortunately, when I first head this I thought the same thing...

It was a nice gesture with no ill intentions, but you knew that somewhere, someone was going to be listening in and was going to pitch a fit about it.  Any government job comes with a "rule book" that rivals the thickness of the World Book Encyclopedia all of which is designed to thwart liability and claims against the employer.  Stupid policies?  Perhaps, but still if you work somewhere, you have to agree and accept them if you want to keep your job.

All that said, I loved it the first time I heard it and still do...but something in my gut told me the responsible ATC would probably be typing his resumé.

Offline sparksjls

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2010, 08:49:48 PM »
First, there are others who listen to the aviation band frequencies.  Plenty of private individuals that don't even know about this web site.  The primary purpose of this site is pilot education, and entertainment as a second purpose.  The communications are in the public domain.

I find it offensive how the media finds something like this a real "story."  There is no story here.  It was a "bring your kid to work" day and I am sure it was a controlled and approved situation. 

Here we have a father, in this day and age, showing interest in his kid, and the world is so quick to call foul.  All the armchair "experts," and most of them never having visited an air traffic control facility.  And certainly not JFK Tower.  Only the best get to work at JFK, and it is a very well-run facility.

How many other parents show enough interest in their kids to show them their job?  This could be one of the most memorable trips for that kid.  And could even influence his future career plans.  We need more of this, properly supervised, not less.

Let it go.  Find some real news.





Thank God for people like you buddy. You took the words right out of my mouth. It is sad that the media spends its time talking about innocent and harmless stuff like this. Sully's situation, yes. 9/11, yes. Air France over the water in a storm, yes. Not this kind of crap. But that's the FAA and the media for ya. Take something so harmless and blow it up in order to get a story and publicity so that someone will get their check and a pat on the back. Sad to think it but is this something that we should worry about in terms of this site being shut down? That would be a crying shame all because the media has nothing else better to do. But that's what free speech will get ya sometimes.

I couldn't disagree more, and think the prior poster's note about having a take your kid to work day at the ER, and allowing your kid to put in a chest tube under dad's supervision is an appropriate analogy.  It just so happened that things ended up without anyone hurt, but that's a function of luck, not of proof of a "controlled environment."  This was not a controlled environment - it became uncontrolled as soon as the kid put on the headset.  What if he misunderstood what dad was telling him and directed JB to the wrong taxiway or runway?  Or gave the wrong departure freq?  What if that incorrect direction from JFK GC resulted in the JB flight crossing an active arrival runway? 

Bottom line: everyone got lucky on this one.  FAA should absolutely drop the hammer on the controller and his Supervisor. 

Offline philcoats

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2010, 09:21:36 PM »
Yeah ..... give it a rest for chr**tsakes

yes it was against FAA regs, and was probably therefore a bit irresponsible.  But I'm sure it was done with all good intentions, with the knowledge of the watch commander, and known by all other ATC an Pilots involved.

I'm sure it was during a slow period, and Air Traffic was NOT sacrificed in anyway.  Dad had his hand on the override mike button at all times.

Now, how do we all gather the facts together and tell the general public not to use the same mentality as the news media is using!

Give it a break... the kid was not controlling air traffic.  An innocent harmless mistake was made.  Thank you! 

Offline Seaduck123

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2010, 09:35:05 PM »
I am confused.  The sound clip that is posted on "Interesting Recordings" with this title doesn't jib with the discussion on this thread.  If you listen carefully it sounds to me like a female controller, all be it with a high pitched, child like voice, but it is obviously someone who is trained in the terminology and is familiar with the taxiways, gates and runways.  This can't possibly be a kid on a day off from school.

The other clip "New controller at JFK"  is the one that is getting all the attention in the news.

Offline atcman23

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 367
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2010, 09:49:32 PM »
I couldn't disagree more, and think the prior poster's note about having a take your kid to work day at the ER, and allowing your kid to put in a chest tube under dad's supervision is an appropriate analogy.  It just so happened that things ended up without anyone hurt, but that's a function of luck, not of proof of a "controlled environment."  This was not a controlled environment - it became uncontrolled as soon as the kid put on the headset.  What if he misunderstood what dad was telling him and directed JB to the wrong taxiway or runway?  Or gave the wrong departure freq?  What if that incorrect direction from JFK GC resulted in the JB flight crossing an active arrival runway? 

Bottom line: everyone got lucky on this one.  FAA should absolutely drop the hammer on the controller and his Supervisor. 


Actually, if you listened to the clip, the kid was giving the instruction "Cleared for take off" and "contact departure.'  These are duties of the local controller.  The kid was not taxiing aircraft and you don't issue the departure frequency to IFR aircraft at the local control position (they were given the departure frequency when they received their clearance).  The kid was on local control, not ground control.  Thus, part of your post is incorrect.  To say that it was an uncontrolled environment I think is incorrect; the dad had control of the frequency at all times and knew what was going on.  Also, he is a controller... it's his job to keep things under control.  To say that the kid immediately undermined ALL control of the position is false as it is blatantly obvious the kid is being told what to say.  Also, the dad was giving other control instructions such as "position and hold."  If the kid said something wrong it is without doubt the dad would then correct what was said.  Even real controllers say things incorrectly and then have to correct themselves.

Lastly to set the record straight, this happened at a slow time for JFK, not a huge departure or arrival push.

Offline vb105

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2010, 11:41:22 PM »
I completely agree with Dave... "Here we have a father, in this day and age, showing interest in his kid, and the world is so quick to call foul." The kid for all we know probably has a strong interest in aviation and wants to follow his father's footsteps.

It's the media's nature to blow things all out of proportion and indeed they did just that. Why stop now?

I see nothing wrong with this scenario, the controller was in control at all times and the kid was obviously told exactly what to say and when to say it. Whether I'd be piloting or sitting as a passenger on one of those flights - at no time would I have felt uncomfortable. Some of you folks including the FAA need to lighten up a little.

Offline Chananya Freedman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 487
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2010, 11:49:31 PM »
You're all right. FAA really needs to lighten up a little bit and if they don't want something like this to happen, shouldn't they ban all visitors to the control tower?

Offline dphoenix

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #66 on: March 04, 2010, 01:40:12 AM »
I will be really, really sad if anything happens to the controller.
I hope the FAA saying they are investing is just the bosses listening to the tapes, agreeing "okay, maybe this isn't a good idea, don't do it anymore without permission" (and I'm sure he had supervisor permission before hand too).
The kid did a great job and it was obvious that the father was telling him what to say...Do I think it is a good idea... ehh probably not just cause it is causing a distraction in the control tower but during a slow time, no big deal. Do I think it is professional? Yeah, I think it still was professionally done.
I also hope this doesn't make the controllers become monotone drones because they're afraid of ending up on liveatc now if they misspeak.

Offline uplink

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 104
  • PPL ASEL, SOCAL AREA
    • SOCAL TRACON/VAN NUYS APPROACH
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #67 on: March 04, 2010, 02:14:13 AM »
First, there are others who listen to the aviation band frequencies.  Plenty of private individuals that don't even know about this web site.  The primary purpose of this site is pilot education, and entertainment as a second purpose.  The communications are in the public domain.

I find it offensive how the media finds something like this a real "story."  There is no story here.  It was a "bring your kid to work" day and I am sure it was a controlled and approved situation.  

Here we have a father, in this day and age, showing interest in his kid, and the world is so quick to call foul.  All the armchair "experts," and most of them never having visited an air traffic control facility.  And certainly not JFK Tower.  Only the best get to work at JFK, and it is a very well-run facility.

How many other parents show enough interest in their kids to show them their job?  This could be one of the most memorable trips for that kid.  And could even influence his future career plans.  We need more of this, properly supervised, not less.

Let it go.  Find some real news.





  I agree with Dave on this.  As a Private Pilot I have learned to hate the media.   The media angers me, and is the LAST place I get my aviation news from.  I feel bad for the father.
  As a kid I remember going to work with my Dad (an airline mechanic at LAX) and I will never forget those trips for the rest of my life.  The media has taken an important event for that father and his son, and trashed and sensationalized it as usual.   Sensationalism sells commercials and that's what they are in the business to do, and aviation mishaps are a free jackpot for the media.
  The towers have spare headset jacks all over the place, the kid was simply plugged into the party line.  This kid NEVER had any control of the skies, (duhh),and his Dad didn't go off to lunch!  I wish there was something we could do for that controller.  I recommend posting your editorial comments on any media website you see this story posted, it may get more public attention than posting here.


« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 10:11:48 PM by uplink »

Offline rekno13

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 186
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #68 on: March 04, 2010, 03:15:59 AM »

I couldn't disagree more, and think the prior poster's note about having a take your kid to work day at the ER, and allowing your kid to put in a chest tube under dad's supervision is an appropriate analogy.  It just so happened that things ended up without anyone hurt, but that's a function of luck, not of proof of a "controlled environment."  This was not a controlled environment - it became uncontrolled as soon as the kid put on the headset.  What if he misunderstood what dad was telling him and directed JB to the wrong taxiway or runway?  Or gave the wrong departure freq?  What if that incorrect direction from JFK GC resulted in the JB flight crossing an active arrival runway? 

Bottom line: everyone got lucky on this one.  FAA should absolutely drop the hammer on the controller and his Supervisor. 

Listen to the entire recording, the kid gave only takeoff and departure hand off after the controller had position and held the plane on the runway. Yes, there are rules concerning communication and access, but this is blown way out of proportions. I feel really sad for the controller and I hope they allow him back to work soon.

Offline ozzykev

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #69 on: March 04, 2010, 03:32:43 AM »
the FAA should lighten up theres so many sad things happening around the world at the moment he bought a smile to my face just heard that all visits to towers have been banned.

Offline dave

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4597
    • LiveATC.net
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #70 on: March 04, 2010, 06:53:19 AM »
That kid did an amazing job, BUT human lives are in play even when it comes to takeoff clearance, so yes this was unacceptable.

The kid said the words, under the supervision of a qualified adult.  The kid did not make a decision as to whether to issue the takeoff clearance.  The well-qualified adult did.

Offline Seaduck123

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #71 on: March 04, 2010, 08:40:10 AM »
The FAA has to bluster and investigate with the help of the "lamestream media" to distract from all the other safety failures and inaction on safety issues they are guilty of in aviation.  The bureaucrats at the FAA are just covering for their own incompetence.  Picking on a kid with such self righteousness is ridiculous and just points out their irrelevance.

Offline mlpsunflower

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2010, 08:53:26 AM »
 I have listened to countless hours from this controller over the past six months. There is no way that air traffic was compromised.  The controller was in total control of the situation at the time.   I would have no problem being on a plane at JFK, and if I had landed and someone told me that I was on a plane that had the radio calls from a child, I just laugh and say it figures he would do something interesting while I wasn’t listening.

It’s a shame, air traffic control isn’t on every kids wish list to be when they grow up, and now I fear we might have lost on a good one.  I just hope that the controller is able to continue with his career, but the way the news is stomping into the ground, I doubt it.   

Offline kaktak1

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2010, 10:32:39 AM »
Is it possible that the FAA is reacting like this to send a message?

Offline STS129

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2010, 10:57:31 AM »
Quite possibly they want to make a point, yes....

As for the rest all I can say is that I concur with dave and those who call the media bloomin vultures.....*irony* But then ooh yeah, there is ABSOLUTELY nothing else to report, I totally forgot that the silly season has just been extended to cover 365 days per year......