Author Topic: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto  (Read 16687 times)

Offline Pearson

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Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« on: February 05, 2007, 12:43:38 AM »
Those darned stuck mics.  A pilot just dropped another big F-bomb on the Toronto feed with a stuck mic...good thing it wasn't directed at a female pilot.  I'll have the clip tomorrow if no one else does...in the meantime, about 10 minutes into the Feb 5 0530Z recording.



Offline Pygmie

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 02:52:11 AM »
Here it is.

Offline Studentpilo

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 04:17:21 PM »
Would pilots be equally reprimanded for improper language on freq?

I just ask because ATC have strict phraseology standards while pilots can typically go with whatever works. In the US anyway, pilots seem to have lower standards for frequency etiquette.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 04:24:16 PM »
I just ask because ATC have strict phraseology standards while pilots can typically go with whatever works. In the US anyway, pilots seem to have lower standards for frequency etiquette.

Do you have any working examples of your theory?  Especially the part that compares US pilots to non-US pilots?
Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY

Offline Pygmie

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 04:50:31 PM »
Can't speak for the U.S., but in Canada pilots have to take the same radio exam, and get the same radio operators certificate as controllers, so they are subject to the same rules regarding fines and the like.  The only problem is, it's much harder to prove which pilot it was on which plane then it is to prove a controller mistake.

Offline Pearson

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 05:46:34 PM »
Here it is.

Thanks for posting it, I was on a different computer last night and didn't have the capabilities to record it.

Offline canuck101

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 10:22:21 PM »
Would pilots be equally reprimanded for improper language on freq?

I'm pretty sure this one came from a pilot

Offline blakman7

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 11:37:19 AM »
Can someone tell me where on the clip there is foul language? Maybe it is just me but I can't hear anything foul, I just hear radio transmissions. Thanks.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2007, 11:44:10 AM »
Can someone tell me where on the clip there is foul language? Maybe it is just me but I can't hear anything foul, I just hear radio transmissions. Thanks.

54 seconds into the audio clip linked in the second post of this thread.
Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY

Offline blakman7

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2007, 04:23:42 PM »
yeah sorry, defintely listening to the wrong clip on my iPod.

Offline XTSKid

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2007, 06:51:28 PM »
In the US anyway, pilots seem to have lower standards for frequency etiquette.


Please explain.

Offline Check Airman

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2007, 07:05:21 PM »
it isn't etiquette that's lacking, it's lack of discipline and lack of adherence to regulations stipulating that standard phraseology be used.

I can't generalize, but in the ATC clips from the various countries I've listened to, ATC is usually more professional with the RT. Flying in the US, on occasion the RT is just appalling. I can't tell you how many times I’ve heard pilots say something like "NXXY are-tee" as opposed to using the phonetic alphabet...or how about "contact tower on nineteen twenty five". try "cleared for the loc-d (localiser dme) to the left".

The CVR for the Comair crash in Kentucky has ATC issuing the clearance:

"...cleared for takeoff."

to which the PNF replies:

"cleared for takeoff"

Neither party states the RW designation. Not pointing any fingers at the crash cause here, just citing an example.

I'm not at all saying that my RT is 100% perfect all the time. i get lazy and unprofessional sometimes too, but make an effort to avoid it. ATC sure adheres to the rules better than we do.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 07:09:04 PM by Check Airman »

Offline Studentpilo

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2007, 04:16:45 PM »


"...cleared for takeoff."

to which the PNF replies:

"cleared for takeoff"

Neither party states the RW designation. Not pointing any fingers at the crash cause here, just citing an example.



According to 7110.65 if only one runway is active for departures, the runway number is not a necessary part of the takeoff clearance. Now I don't know if the shorter runway WAS active that day. If it was the controller certainly was in violation of 7110.65

As to my remarks, its something I notice a lot just when flying around.

"COA123 descend and maintain 3000"
"Down to 3 COA123"

"JAL423 Mantain 180 Kts to the Outer Marker"
"180 to the marker, JAL423"

Its more than enough to give a readback, but it certainly is more lax.

Offline Check Airman

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2007, 06:20:07 PM »
Is that reference re not using the runway designation from the FAR's? I've never heard of it, but if so, I hope this incident gets the rules changed ASAP.

Offline Studentpilo

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2007, 08:31:59 PM »
Yup its right there in 7110.65

3-9-9. TAKEOFF CLEARANCE

a. When only one runway is active, issue takeoff clearance.

PHRASEOLOGY-
CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF.

Offline slowtationIIdriver

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2007, 03:19:37 PM »
Those darned stuck mics.  A pilot just dropped another big F-bomb on the Toronto feed with a stuck mic...good thing it wasn't directed at a female pilot.  I'll have the clip tomorrow if no one else does...in the meantime, about 10 minutes into the Feb 5 0530Z recording.
Where are the clips of pilots talking bad about female pilots?  I'd like to here them.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2007, 03:23:02 PM »
Where are the clips of pilots talking bad about female pilots?  I'd like to here them.

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php/topic,2645.0.html
Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY

Offline slowtationIIdriver

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2007, 03:48:54 PM »
Oh wow, that was the controller.  In reading all the associated posts after that, I think it is clear he was referring to the pilot not the equipment because he didn't know it was stuck.  And in that same token, you can't fault him for it, because he thinks he is just talking out loud to himself.  At any rate, it was an unfortunate and embarrassing situation nonetheless.  I would have been pissed if I was the female pilot, but she was very understanding.

Offline Pearson

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Re: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2007, 05:56:02 PM »
Oh wow, that was the controller.  In reading all the associated posts after that, I think it is clear he was referring to the pilot not the equipment because he didn't know it was stuck.  And in that same token, you can't fault him for it, because he thinks he is just talking out loud to himself.  At any rate, it was an unfortunate and embarrassing situation nonetheless.  I would have been pissed if I was the female pilot, but she was very understanding.

Well you have to fault him for it...it's like a little kid with a gun that accidently shoots his friend, but is let off the hook because he didn't know it was real or something.  I think the only reason he was let back to work so quickly as because they're short controllers at Pearson.