airtraffic

Author Topic: SFO WheelsUp emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.  (Read 36602 times)

Offline AntiAntny

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
SFO WheelsUp emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« on: August 07, 2015, 10:13:55 AM »
 http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ksfo/KSFO-Dep1-Aug-06-2015-1700Z.mp3

Fast forward to 28:21.  Sounds like the door flew off the aircraft.  They declare an emergency and cannot climb to the minimum vectoring altitude.  Good job of flying and controlling.  Hard to hear the N number but it is something  nine uniform pop.   edit N509UP 

« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 07:50:28 AM by AntiAntny »



Offline AntiAntny

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Aircraft declares emergency at SFO 8/6/15 - door problem.
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2015, 01:30:47 PM »
Conversation continues here right at the beginning of the recording between N509UP and NORcal.  Gets testy as the controller does not seem to grasp the concept of emergency aircraft.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ksfo/KSFO-Dep1-Aug-06-2015-1730Z.mp3

Offline Rick108

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: Aircraft declares emergency at SFO 8/6/15 - door problem.
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2015, 02:04:26 PM »
Here are just the relevant comms, starting with departure, through the evacuation on the ground.  About 8 minutes worth.  This is a Citation jet N509UP, apparently a door came open on departure and was still hanging by the hinges when they landed.

Offline VASAviation

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • REAL ATC Transcripted Videos
Re: Aircraft declares emergency at SFO 8/6/15 - door problem.
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2015, 04:28:00 PM »
It definitely deserves my time to edit a video!!

Thanks both for sharing it!! :wink: :wink:
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 04:29:44 PM by VictorAtienza94 »

Offline AntiAntny

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Aircraft declares emergency at SFO 8/6/15 - door problem.
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2015, 05:21:17 PM »
Prior to departure, N509UP asked tower about the departure procedure for 28R on tower frequency.

Around 25:40 in you can hear the pilot request clarification on how to fly the departure, very unusual to do on tower frequency.  Then after cleared for takeoff, they ask again, are we cleared for takeoff?

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ksfo/KSFO-Twr-Aug-06-2015-1700Z.mp3

Wonder if this crew was in a rush.

 Anyway, great job by all.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2015, 05:23:35 PM by AntiAntny »

Offline AntiAntny

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Aircraft declares emergency at SFO 8/6/15 - door problem.
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2015, 07:45:27 AM »
Here are just the relevant comms, starting with departure, through the evacuation on the ground.  About 8 minutes worth.  This is a Citation jet N509UP, apparently a door came open on departure and was still hanging by the hinges when they landed.

Thanks for condensing the audio files into one mp3.  Maybe you could re-make it to include the ground comms prior to takeoff, tower prior, etc.  Not sure how to edit that audio like you have.

Here  is the tower comms on initial taxi.  Sounded like ground offered them 28R intersection departure at initial taxi instructions.  Climb via the sid except maintain 3000.  Thats not the time to be figuring out if you can make the new climb gradient like 3 minutes prior to takeoff and while taxiing at a busy airport.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ksfo/KSFO-Gnd1-Aug-06-2015-1700Z.mp3

Ground comms @ around 23:25 into recording.  
« Last Edit: August 08, 2015, 07:48:27 AM by AntiAntny »

Offline Fryy

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
    • CalAggieFlyers
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2015, 02:43:10 PM »
Here's the clip including the GND and TWR comms prior to departure. Audio from the KOAK APP/DEP feed has better reception so the controller is 5 by 5.

Offline adanto6840

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2015, 12:28:56 PM »
Is it just me or did the controller just do a "satisfactory" job here? 

To the controller's credit, it was obviously pretty busy airspace, and 509UP wasn't the most calm, but I still didn't think she handled the situation particularly well.  Not awful by any means, but I've listened to it a number of times and keep thinking that she could have done a better job...

The initial handling of the emergency could have been better IMO; repeatedly asking for a climb & whether the 509UP could maintain their own terrain obstruction clearance.

Further in, 509UP asks for several things and doesn't get what he's asking for right away if at all;  heading confirmation (which she confirms and then corrects), localizer frequency info (localizer wasn't actually available), she asks him to confirm he has information oscar, etc...

Also, Redwood 904 calls several times, controller even (I think) asks who's calling after Redwood 904 had called several times & clearly identified himself. 

All turned out well thankfully, and 509UP maybe could have done a better job, but I definitely came off thinking that the controller could have done a better job handling the situation overall.

Definitely am glad it turned out OK for everyone, though, and it's much easier sitting in my armchair writing this than it is to actually be in any relevant positions involved in this situation...

Offline jdflyer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2015, 10:19:58 PM »
I had some of the same thoughts about the controller.  At one point she clears him to intercept the localizer and then asked for the frequency, says it is not available.

Offline DingerX

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2015, 10:46:31 AM »
Heading out of the 28s the problem is San Bruno Mountain, with an elevation of 1319 ft. at Radio Peak. So add those antennae on there, and you get a MVA of 2600. In 1999, a United 747 mishandled an engine out and cleared the ridge by ~100 ft. In the evenings, the fog rolls in off the sea, and spills over the San Bruno range. In the mornings, it slowly burns off. I'm not sure that's the case here, but it would fit the clouds.
That's why the initial request to level out at 2000 feet was assigned 2600.
It was a busy frequency, so the first emergency call got stepped on (at least partially). On the second call, they asked for an immediate return, and NORCAL's concern was that, if they couldn't maintain their own terrain clearance, they climb to 2600. The first job of everyone, even above returning to the field, was to avoid hitting anything. If they can't see out the windows, NORCAL would really like them at an altitude where they can guide them via radar.
The guys in the Citation are having a rough time of it -- losing a door can and has finished badly --, but the yelling is probably due to the ambient noise more than anything else. With the windows down and the pedal to the metal, it's going to be really loud in there.
"We're having a hard time climbing, can you just send us back?" could be interpreted in a variety of ways. The controller explained why she was making them climb, and they clarified that they were unable to climb ("we're trying to climb – it's not doing well").
At that point, she had everything she needed, and, with coordination, turned them back below the MVA. 100 was the reciprocal heading, 90 was to intercept the approach for RW 10, then 70. They wanted an ILS approach to 10L/R, and she tried to give it. It took thirty seconds for them to figure out ILS 10L/R didn't exist (My guess: a combination of San Bruno Mountain and noise abatement means that landings are conducted on 28L/R most of the time, and 19L/R when the wind is weird). About 4 nm from the field, they enter VMC conditions and do a visual on 28R into a 10-kt headwind.

VX 904 could wait: they were climbing to 19,000 feet on the way to Vegas. Plenty of time to deal with them.

Sure, if you want to nitpick, there's plenty to nitpick. The flight crew does not act as if they have any idea of the terrain below them. Even before the emergency, they ask to level off at below MVA. That morning, they probably saw a wall of fog to the West and didn't think there was a mountain there.

"Uniform Pop"was not clear in their radio transmissions. Standard phraseology or not, it would have saved a lot of time if, when presented with minima, they stated they were unable to maintain them, rather than understating the case from inside a tornado of paperwork and screaming businesspeople.

Certainly, it would have helped if the departure controller knew that there were no ILS approaches to 10L/R, but she had already cleared the traffic behind them, put SFO on alert, and sent the Citation where it needed to go. She also could have pointed out the high ground below them using non-standard phraseology, since they also did not seem to grasp what MVA meant.

Offline VASAviation

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • REAL ATC Transcripted Videos
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2015, 10:20:58 AM »
Hello everyone!

Could any of you please help with these little parts to transcribe? I'm working on a video about this.

I'm using the N509UP_KSFO2 clip posted by Fryy

[5:20]
-N9UP, San Francisco altimeter setting 29.92
-29.92, UP... give me the localizer frequency. I can't get [..............]
[5:30]

[6:57]
-[..............] passengers - I think they're okay but they gonna be really upset
[7:04]

[9:23]
-9UP, appears you just have one gear down
-UP, is everything down now?
-Ok, right now you're [...............] as soon as you level up towards the airport, I'll let you know.
-OPS12, can you see if he has full gear?
-[.......... down now]
-9UP, appears that all your gear is down
-UP, that was [...............]
[9:48]

Offline Squawk 7700

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 550
    • Squawk 7700 on Flickr
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2015, 11:03:32 AM »
Good post, I didn't hear about this last week?
Victor when you are done with the video I like to check it out.  :-)
Hopefully my receivers were able to capture the audio?
Ken

Offline Rick108

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 137
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2015, 11:19:28 AM »
Hello everyone!

Could any of you please help with these little parts to transcribe? I'm working on a video about this.

I'm using the N509UP_KSFO2 clip posted by Fryy
Here you go!

[5:20]
-N9UP, San Francisco altimeter setting 29.92
-29.92, UP... give me the localizer frequency. I can't get [anything here.  My hands are full.]
[5:30]

[6:57]
-[[Get the] trucks rolling.  This door is hanging, and, uh, ] passengers - I think they're okay but they gonna be [pretty] upset
[7:04]

[9:23]
-9UP, appears you just have one gear down
-UP, is everything down now?
-Ok, right now you're [belly is away from us, so] as soon as you level up towards the airport, I'll let you know.
-OPS12, can you see if he has full gear?
-[We're showing three down now]
-9UP, appears that all your gear is down
-UP, that was [our door hanging you saw]
[9:48]

Offline VASAviation

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • REAL ATC Transcripted Videos
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2015, 12:56:56 PM »
Rick always happy to help! You're great, friend!! :roll: :roll: THAAAANKS!!!

Victor when you are done with the video I like to check it out.  :-)

Sure, I'll get it to ya!! :lol:

Offline busy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2015, 10:32:14 PM »
And are those videos avilable to everyone? I mean Can I have it?

Offline VASAviation

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • REAL ATC Transcripted Videos
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2015, 02:24:33 PM »
And are those videos avilable to everyone? I mean Can I have it?

You can watch it. It's on youtube.

Just search for VASAviation channel :-)

Offline englishpilot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2015, 02:36:59 PM »
Hi, Where is this Wheels Up video on youtube?  Can't find it. 

Thanks

Offline VASAviation

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • REAL ATC Transcripted Videos
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2015, 04:55:55 PM »
This 509UP video is not published yet :wink: :wink:

Offline genemas

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2015, 06:43:14 PM »
FYI, i think everyone is confused here... it's just the audio recording this guy uploaded to youtube... not an actual video.

Offline river

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2015, 02:56:35 PM »
victor is the video going to be published?  thx.

Offline AntiAntny

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2015, 02:39:38 PM »
Heading out of the 28s the problem is San Bruno Mountain, with an elevation of 1319 ft. at Radio Peak. So add those antennae on there, and you get a MVA of 2600. In 1999, a United 747 mishandled an engine out and cleared the ridge by ~100 ft. In the evenings, the fog rolls in off the sea, and spills over the San Bruno range. In the mornings, it slowly burns off. I'm not sure that's the case here, but it would fit the clouds.
That's why the initial request to level out at 2000 feet was assigned 2600.
It was a busy frequency, so the first emergency call got stepped on (at least partially). On the second call, they asked for an immediate return, and NORCAL's concern was that, if they couldn't maintain their own terrain clearance, they climb to 2600. The first job of everyone, even above returning to the field, was to avoid hitting anything. If they can't see out the windows, NORCAL would really like them at an altitude where they can guide them via radar.
The guys in the Citation are having a rough time of it -- losing a door can and has finished badly --, but the yelling is probably due to the ambient noise more than anything else. With the windows down and the pedal to the metal, it's going to be really loud in there.
"We're having a hard time climbing, can you just send us back?" could be interpreted in a variety of ways. The controller explained why she was making them climb, and they clarified that they were unable to climb ("we're trying to climb – it's not doing well").
At that point, she had everything she needed, and, with coordination, turned them back below the MVA. 100 was the reciprocal heading, 90 was to intercept the approach for RW 10, then 70. They wanted an ILS approach to 10L/R, and she tried to give it. It took thirty seconds for them to figure out ILS 10L/R didn't exist (My guess: a combination of San Bruno Mountain and noise abatement means that landings are conducted on 28L/R most of the time, and 19L/R when the wind is weird). About 4 nm from the field, they enter VMC conditions and do a visual on 28R into a 10-kt headwind.

VX 904 could wait: they were climbing to 19,000 feet on the way to Vegas. Plenty of time to deal with them.

Sure, if you want to nitpick, there's plenty to nitpick. The flight crew does not act as if they have any idea of the terrain below them. Even before the emergency, they ask to level off at below MVA. That morning, they probably saw a wall of fog to the West and didn't think there was a mountain there.

"Uniform Pop"was not clear in their radio transmissions. Standard phraseology or not, it would have saved a lot of time if, when presented with minima, they stated they were unable to maintain them, rather than understating the case from inside a tornado of paperwork and screaming businesspeople.

Certainly, it would have helped if the departure controller knew that there were no ILS approaches to 10L/R, but she had already cleared the traffic behind them, put SFO on alert, and sent the Citation where it needed to go. She also could have pointed out the high ground below them using non-standard phraseology, since they also did not seem to grasp what MVA meant.

Excellent synopsis.  So question for you experts : Is this considered an NTSB reportable accident or incident?  Or, if there was no damage, is it just some FAA paperwork required because they declared emergency aircraft status?

Offline VASAviation

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • REAL ATC Transcripted Videos
Re: SFO emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2015, 08:33:20 AM »
victor is the video going to be published?  thx.

Hey!!

I actually answered you by PM but if anyone wants to know, this video will be published.

It is just in my video queue that is quite long at this time. I'll give as high priority as I can! :-)

Offline VASAviation

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • REAL ATC Transcripted Videos
Re: SFO WheelsUp emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2015, 08:46:34 AM »
You know what?

I've been reviewing my videos to be published and I've decided this Citation video will be published by tomorrow morning!!  :wink: :wink:

Offline VASAviation

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • REAL ATC Transcripted Videos
Re: SFO WheelsUp emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2015, 02:41:45 AM »
Here it is!! :wink: :wink:


Offline englishpilot

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 128
Re: SFO WheelsUp emergency-door "flew off aircraft" 8/6/15.
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2015, 01:55:33 PM »
you took your time  :wink: