Author Topic: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......  (Read 20428 times)

Offline bluecrewfan08

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AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« on: July 14, 2009, 11:21:07 PM »
A little something I located after a tip from a buddy on A.Net.

On Saturday, July 11th, American 2493, a 737-800 (DFW-LAX) landed on runway 25-Left at LAX without landing clearance. "

Looks like this flight is usually DFW to LAX daily with a local landing time of  about 11:45.

Didn't really even seem t bother the pilot. ATC was , well lets say " restrained".

« Last Edit: July 15, 2009, 10:06:49 AM by dave »



Offline bluecrewfan08

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009, 11:23:54 PM »
Sorry for the double upload. First time doing this.


Rob
KLAX Feeder

Offline ogogog

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2009, 08:31:42 AM »
AAL, why dose that  not suprise me.

Offline mikenftsmith

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 12:05:40 PM »
AAL, why dose that  not suprise me.



Why the negative attitude toward American?

Offline ogogog

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 04:12:56 PM »
if you ever had to control them you would know.

Offline Silly Sod

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2009, 02:16:00 PM »
Who/How same letters.... No handoff...no pickup.. who do you blame and how?!

Offline evilcuban

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 07:48:50 PM »
"Yeah I think they forgot to switch us over and we didn't catch it."  ugh....

Offline KASWspotter

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2009, 07:28:54 PM »
Ok heres a question for pilots and controllers alike. Youre on final to an airport such as LAX and suddenly realize youre not talking tower like these fellas. Pilots, do you go around and try to establish contact or do you continue the approach like these guys and sort it out on the ground? Controllers at an airport like this what would you prefer these guys do?

Offline Beantown

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 11:58:24 PM »
I'm not trying to place blame on anybody but you would think at some point the pilot would be curious on why he hasn't been switched over to the tower freq yet.

Offline atcman23

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2009, 08:40:02 AM »
Ok heres a question for pilots and controllers alike. Youre on final to an airport such as LAX and suddenly realize youre not talking tower like these fellas. Pilots, do you go around and try to establish contact or do you continue the approach like these guys and sort it out on the ground? Controllers at an airport like this what would you prefer these guys do?

I'm not exactly sure of the procedure, but on an ILS approach, I think you would declare a missed approach.  The situation is uniquely odd and if the pilot doesn't hear the approach controller advising to switch to tower or for some reason they forget to tell an aircraft, the pilot or co-pilot needs to speak up because they're pretty much just as liable.
Mark Spencer

Offline marick626

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2009, 10:43:50 PM »
Ok heres a question for pilots and controllers alike. Youre on final to an airport such as LAX and suddenly realize youre not talking tower like these fellas. Pilots, do you go around and try to establish contact or do you continue the approach like these guys and sort it out on the ground? Controllers at an airport like this what would you prefer these guys do?

You cannot land without clearance unless you have some sort of emergency, then you can deviate from any regulation in order to save lives. If you do not hear "cleared to land" and your aircraft reg, your wheels cannot touch the runway. That is known as a pilot deviation and it is taken very seriously by the FAA. You could loose your license. At least, that is what I think.  :roll:

Offline Delta Echo

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 08:22:37 PM »
Ok heres a question for pilots and controllers alike. Youre on final to an airport such as LAX and suddenly realize youre not talking tower like these fellas. Pilots, do you go around and try to establish contact or do you continue the approach like these guys and sort it out on the ground? Controllers at an airport like this what would you prefer these guys do?

Well at FLL we have a direct line to the ear of the approach controller. If I am not talking to the plane on about a 2 mile final(taking speed into account) then I am getting in the approach controller ear. Also I am getting up and moving to the Light Gun. I will give him a green light. I will also tell the approach controller: "Clear AAL1498 to land and switch him!"

Delta Echo

Also, Although I am not suggesting a pilot land with out a clearance, it is very likely he was given a green light from the tower. He did have a valid landing clearance but the pilot probably never hear it.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 08:26:05 PM by Delta Echo »

Offline domin752

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2009, 09:37:52 AM »
I'm guilty of this very thing happening to me me in PIT. It was one of those times the radios were too quiet for comfort. the capt. was flying and I was on the radios, we never got a hand-off but I never asked either. I definitely took the blame for that one. Once on the ground, with that horrible gut wrenching feeling, I switched to ground and they didn't say anything. When we arrived at the gate we called up to the cab and they said that we were cleared to land, no prob. THANKFULLY, PIT ATC seems to be one of the most laid back, "cool guy" personnel out there. THANKFULLY, PIT doesn't have a lot of air traffic nowadays. thank you to that controller, by the way.
JD

Offline w0x0f

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2009, 10:48:22 AM »
I'm guilty of this very thing happening to me me in PIT. It was one of those times the radios were too quiet for comfort. the capt. was flying and I was on the radios, we never got a hand-off but I never asked either. I definitely took the blame for that one. Once on the ground, with that horrible gut wrenching feeling, I switched to ground and they didn't say anything. When we arrived at the gate we called up to the cab and they said that we were cleared to land, no prob. THANKFULLY, PIT ATC seems to be one of the most laid back, "cool guy" personnel out there. THANKFULLY, PIT doesn't have a lot of air traffic nowadays. thank you to that controller, by the way.

The attitude goes back to when PIT was exceptionally busy (thanks for bringing that up, it still hurts.) 

No dent, no deal. 

w0x0f 

Offline domin752

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2009, 11:44:55 AM »
sorry, I didn't mean it as "thankfully there is less traffic in PIT nowadays". I meant it as "thankfully we didn't get violated". I'm very sad to see PIT in its current condition, I wish the best to all the employees on the field, or involved with PIT operations.
JD

Offline w0x0f

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2009, 03:47:38 PM »
sorry, I didn't mean it as "thankfully there is less traffic in PIT nowadays". I meant it as "thankfully we didn't get violated". I'm very sad to see PIT in its current condition, I wish the best to all the employees on the field, or involved with PIT operations.

No apology necessary.  PIT has always had a very good customer service approach for the most part, despite what the FAA has done to its controllers over the past 3 years.  That's the way it was taught years ago and many of the same personnel remain.  That's why we won't bust someone over something  like a missed landing clearance.  Unfortunately, I believe advertising these types of incidents on here with recordings may cause these situations to be more closely scrutinized by the enforcement end of the FAA. Thanks for the nice words.

w0x0f
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 03:54:01 PM by w0x0f »

Offline Greg01

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2009, 07:36:07 PM »
Ok, I haven't seen this one mentioned: just switch over to tower if you're getting too close and can't get a word in edgewise.

Greg

Offline aggiesrul8

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2009, 12:15:54 AM »
Funny, I haven't been on this site in quite a while and decided to listen to LAX tower tonight.  Same type of deal happened, guy rolling down the runway after landing said he didn't ever get clearance to land, just that he was second.  The controller told him you were cleared to land when you said you had visual on the traffic.  The pilot said I thought you had to give us clearance to land.  The controller simply said,"You were cleared, contact ground point 75, Done"

I got a kick out of this..

Offline domin752

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2009, 09:18:08 AM »
Ok, I haven't seen this one mentioned: just switch over to tower if you're getting too close and can't get a word in edgewise.

Greg

DEFINITELY Go-around.
JD

Offline Greg01

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2009, 01:04:00 PM »
Domin,

I'm not suggesting to land without a landing clearance. What I'm saying is if you get close or past the point where usually you get switched to tower and the approach control freq is jammed with talking, simply switch and call tower. I think it's unnecessary to initiate a go around on a five mile final.

Greg

Offline domin752

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 09:14:50 AM »
Domin,

I'm not suggesting to land without a landing clearance. What I'm saying is if you get close or past the point where usually you get switched to tower and the approach control freq is jammed with talking, simply switch and call tower. I think it's unnecessary to initiate a go around on a five mile final.

Greg

oh yea, sorry I misinterpreted what you were saying. They're usually good about that, but there has been one or two cases I can think of when we had to just switch to tower and explain the situation. everything worked out.
JD

Offline Greg01

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2009, 02:04:58 PM »
No worries! Frequency changes are easy to work out if someone forgets for the most part.

Greg

Offline pilot_ngb

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2009, 09:32:42 AM »
Pilot should have gone around.

With <40hrs in a C172 I once had to initiate a go ahead at 10' above the runway. The tower had not cleared us to land despite our final calls 3 times. A C150 had just departed the runway. It was safe to land, but we never got clearance. Simple really.

Offline davrober

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Re: AA 2493 lands at LAX with no clearance.......
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2009, 11:43:44 AM »
 :? I think i would have the presence of mind to ask approach if they plan to turn me over before I land . it's called paying attention in the cockpit. Because as perfect as we are it's only 99.9999 percent of the time. .   
Ok heres a question for pilots and controllers alike. Youre on final to an airport such as LAX and suddenly realize youre not talking tower like these fellas. Pilots, do you go around and try to establish contact or do you continue the approach like these guys and sort it out on the ground? Controllers at an airport like this what would you prefer these guys do?