airtraffic

Author Topic: Role Reversal  (Read 9914 times)

Offline dljone3

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Role Reversal
« on: June 11, 2008, 12:56:42 PM »
I was listening to Philly (KPHL) tower early last week I believe and heard an interesting exchange between a pilot and ATC. The controller working the tower cleared an aircraft (can't remember which airline) to position and hold. The pilot replied and proceeded to comply with the instruction. I guess the controller was distracted with something else in the tower. A few seconds later she rudely asks why an aircraft is taking the runway. The pilot replies, "Because you just instructed us to." The controller's reply was something like, "Oh." Then she clears the aircraft for takeoff. No apology or anything. After the aircraft departs, I believe there was a shift change and a new controller instructed the departing aircraft to switch over to departure control. The pilot politely asked the new controller for the phone number to the tower, because he wanted to report an incident. Never heard a pilot request the tower number before. It's usually the other way around. Did anyone else catch this?



Offline tyketto

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Re: Role Reversal
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2008, 01:43:12 PM »
Can't say I did hear it, but I did hear similar once at KLAS about 8 years ago.

a NWA 757 had just landed on 25L, and another jet had landed on 25R. The controller had given the NWA jet the instruction to cross runway 25R, but the plane landing 25R hadn't passed him yet (NWA was on taxiway A5) so as they were about to cross 25R, they see the other plane (another B757) go by. They slammed on their brakes, and yelled at the controller "Nice job of letting us know about the other arrival!" or something to that extent. The controller apologized, and the NWA pilot asked right then and there of the phone number to the tower. Controller in question gave it to them then and there.

BL.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Role Reversal
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2008, 02:27:53 PM »
The pilot politely asked the new controller for the phone number to the tower, because he wanted to report an incident. Never heard a pilot request the tower number before. It's usually the other way around. Did anyone else catch this?

In my opinion it is a tactic that should be used by pilots more often than they do. 

During a recent weekly commute I made a well-intentioned but thoughtless pattern mistake flying into busy class D airport.  Yes it was a bonehead mistake for which I took full responsibility (too low in the pattern while crossing the busy main runway with the goal of turning a very short base and final to get the heck out of the way of the busy crossing runway - no loss of separation occurred, but in theory it could have).   What followed was the tower controller's need to identify, underscore, and reiterate the mistake on the frequency just as I was turning to final. 

For those who don't fly a retractable gear aircraft as a single pilot or really any aircraft, the final approach phase is a crucial phase that involves continually running checklists to prevent a gear up or any other type of low altitude accident due to distraction.   The last thing anyone wants is a distracted pilot who inadvertently lands gear up in the middle of the busy main runway's intersection, closing said busy class D airport.

Thus, the recommended time (at least in my opinion) to discuss a pilot's error is not when that aircraft is on final, just as it would not be recommended for a pilot to discuss a controller's mistake while that person were handling multiple arrivals and departures.  When thoughts have to turn away from the primary task bad things can happen.

After rolling out from the landing I again received the controller's ire.  It was then that I replied to him, "This would be better discussed on the phone - please give me the tower's number."  Once I had parked and secured the aircraft, I called the tower and spoke to the controller to acknowledge my mistake. 

The point here is that both pilot and controller have phases of their jobs/tasks that require heightened mental acuity.  A time to discuss one party's failings (outside of imminent loss of separation) should be handled over the phone, not on the frequency.  Pilots should not be afraid to ask for a number to do so, regardless of who was responsible for the mistake.



Offline PHL Approach

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Re: Role Reversal
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2008, 06:03:57 PM »
Don't remember a time or date you heard this?

Offline NY Z Pilot

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Re: Role Reversal
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 12:47:10 AM »
sometimes youll get a pilot call up the tower...most of the time they wont ask for the number theyll get it from their company. Youd be surprised how often it happens.

Offline englishpilot

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Re: Role Reversal
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 02:49:27 PM »
Listen to the BA Missed approch thread on this forum.  The BA 747 gets messed around I think about 3 times.  He requests a number from San Fran approach - quite rightly too!